I just had Kamo III by Lolev Beer from Pittsburgh, which is advertised on the can as an "ultra hopped ale" distinct from their myriad IPAs, DIPAs, and pale ales. The texture and appearance (the glassware I had didn't lend itself to good pictures) were similar to what I've seen from Troon, the very sickly off yellow intensely hazy IPAs with tight, tall foam. There's a place close to my parents called Threat Brewing which does a similar thing to Troon, with the ultra thick NEIPAs and super limited releases only online and no taproom. Lolev has an excellent taproom and also excels at wild ale and (imo) European lagers, but this "ultra hopped ale" thing is their newest venture and they're getting massive attention for it, at least on social media. I loved the beer. It was a little over 2 weeks old, and there was a good amount of hop burn, but it was so intensely hoppy that it felt like a reaction to something like hoppy pils: a beer so thick and potent that it's a similarly clean hop experience in the most opposite direction. All this to say, what trends are you guys noticing catch on? As a "haze bro", it seems like my favorite breweries are hunting Troon's success. I'd love to hear what else is popping up in the post-hype, post-apocalyptic? (As the beer columnists want us to believe) scene.
I have to confess when I read "ultra hopped ale" I laughed out loud. I suppose that describing a beer as being a Hazy Double IPA is now considered as being passe? In past threads I would refer to this type of stuff (e.g., marketing, etc.) via “shiny new thing’. In other words, breweries trying their best to present their products as being shiny & new in order to generate excitement for beer consumers who are constantly looking for something new to try. While I get that in today’s competitive craft beer market that some (most?) breweries feel the need to do stuff like this but I suppose since I am not in constant search of a “shiny new thing” this just falls flat for me. As I type this reply I can’t think of another example of a so-called new beer style like “ultra hopped ale” from my local craft breweries. Maybe with some further time/reflection something will come to mind. On the specific topic of Lolev, I did discuss a beer from them in the NBW thread: Lolev Daltonico Black IPA. I had a mixed reaction to this beer: “Overall: I think overall this beer is quite good. I liked the first half of this beer with citrus and some pine flavors but the second half was a bit less enjoyable since I am not a fan of hop burn.” https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-249.680545/#post-8168825 I suppose in hindsight my ‘reaction’ to this beer was less than positive since I have never purchased another beer from Lolev. More Lolev beers for others to buy? Cheers!
Yeah it's 100% a marketing thing, but I will say I've seen a lot of the "hazy IPA only" places even in TN start to copy that Troon style down to the color. People have gotten used to DDH hazy stuff, but I guess I'm also looking for new things. I'm lucky to have access to PA's incredible lager breweries, and I guess after being around Barrique and Burial for too long, am not searching for incredible lagers since I have Pour Mans 5 minutes down the street over the holidays as well Forest and Main and Human Robot close and widely available. I guess that's the topic of discourse. This place has been blowing up over "WC/NZ pils" and hoppy lager, so what really could be next? After drinking a few of these "ultra hopped ales", it does feel like something different in that they are shockingly bitter and hop burn is kind of the goal in a way I haven't seen before. So what are people doing now that hoppy lager is a big thing? What even could be next...
Do you have family (or friends) in Lancaster County? Another lager focused brewery you might want to look out for is Gretz Brewing which opened last October, located in nearby Chester County. I listened to a podcast with Kyler Gretz and it appears they are still on track to open a tasting room later this year. You can read more here: https://breweriesinpa.com/generatio...-revives-a-historic-philadelphia-beer-legacy/ I had the pleasure of drinking Gretz German Pilsner which I discussed in a recent NBW post: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-298.683025/#post-8348673 If things work out well tomorrow I will be drinking a Gretz Franconian Landbier. Interesting question. Some breweries choose to market these beers via "West Coast Pilsner". I have not seen too many locally brewed beers labeled as West Coast Pilsner but of the handful I have had they have been varying in nature. The West Coast Pilsner from East Branch did taste like a Pilsner: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-246.680393/#post-8158244 In contrast the West Coast Pilsner from Tonewood was more like a Juicy/Hazy Pale Ale vs. a Pilsner: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-287.682472/#post-8305839 Cheers! Edit: In this weekend's NBW thread I discussed a new beer from Sly Fox which they label as being an American Pilsner: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-303.683252/#post-8366689
I had lived most of my life in Lancaster before moving away for college and my family still all lives there, so I'm back frequently. It would be good to try a new spot; I don't think I've been disappointed by a Lancaster County brewer yet and there are MANY as the area has had a ton of new openings with a lot of growth, even some social media fame/awards. If the opening is this summer, I'll hopefully be able to catch it, or maybe if there's distro?? To the hoppy pils argument, Pour Man's ECP (east coast pils) drinks like their other pilsners, but I agree. It seems like a lot of places are simply smashing hops into lagers and whatever comes out comes out. Proper lager breweries seem to be much better about this.
At the moment, Gretz is self-distributing. From a podcast discussion it sounds like they intend to start with Philadelphia (e.g., my Gretz German Pilsner was on draft at Local 44 in West Philly) and then branch out (e.g., Philly suburbs?). I have yet to see any Gretz canned beers at my local beer retailers in Montgomery County. The brewery is still very young (only 6+ months old) so... I have only had a handful of beers labeled as "West Coast Pilsner", a combination of them still being very new (?) and frankly I have a preference for beers like Bohemian (Czech) Pilsner, German Pilsner, etc. In a week a local craft brewery (Von C in Norristown) will be having a Czech beer event and they will once again be brewing a recreation of a Bohemian (Czech) Pilsner brewed by an old Philly area brewery (Adam Scheidt Brewing) way back in the day. And other Czech beer styles as well. I had the pleasure of enjoying this recreation of this old Adam Scheidt beer in a past visit to the Von C taproom: Prior Preferred Czech Pilsner https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-137.671764/#post-7721120 Na Zdravi
Regarding the "ultra hopped" thing seems like a spin from RaR's branding their new line of high-end NEIPA releases as "hop saturated ales" in the last couple years. Definitely have seen at least another brewery or two glom onto some version of that nomenclature, but as far as I'm concerned it's still just hazy/New England style IPA. Also just a note that Troon would always bill theirs as "New American Hoppy Ales," which sounds prentious but is technically accurate and I always felt like a way to head off the gripes of "grrr this isn't the IPA I know!" which could've been a more common thing when they were starting off in the early days of the haze craze and people expected IPA to be like Lagunitas or Sierra.
Sounds like shit to me. Nothing in the way you described these beers does anything to make me want to try one.
As a degenerate hazy IPA fan, I compared my notes from the "ultra hopped" stuff to a standard DDH IPA today (New Trail 8th Orbit). My opinion is that it's a drinking experience closer to a kettle sour or pastry stout, but still pretty much the same thing, and I think I have room to appreciate both styles of brewing. All that to say, still a hazy IPA, and I want a lager. Side note, I feel like I'm in the minority here for liking very hazy/juicy stuff. I promise I love RIS and actively hunt cask ale/Czech dark lager, look at my profile.
I am with you brother as regards lagers. An hour+ ago I enjoyed drinking a Mainstay Poplar Pils at a pop-up beer garden in FDR park (after watching the Phillies beat the Rockies). And right now I am enjoying a homebrewed Czech Dark Lager. Na Zdravi P.S. A 'stock photo' of my homebrewed CDL:
I'm with you about enjoying Hazy IPAs. Also with you on the RIS and dark lagers. My opinion, no one should apologize or worry about what kinds of beer they like to drink.
All credit goes to my wife. When we visited Prague we stayed in the Anděl neighborhood. Anděl is Czech for angel so she decided to brand my homebrewed Czech Dark Lager as Dark Angel. And she found that graphic for the dark angel somewhere. I encouraged her to submit her label to Brew Your Own magazine and they published in in one of their issues. Na Zdravi
Lolev was a really good brewery before they went all in on the hazy IPA bullshit. Now I could not possibly care less
This is not directed at OP or anyone specifically, but I don't know if I'd agree with that. Maybe being a beer buyer and interacting with brewers on a consistent basis has allowed me to be a little more gracious about these things but, honestly, a lot of this stuff just reads to me as brewers being nerds and trying new things. Especially with the smaller breweries, there's no marketing team, there's no-one trying to push a capitalist agenda, it's literally just a bunch of ppl (sometimes just one or two!) trying to make yummy beers and doing it in a way that feels exciting and satisfying as a craft. And I've seen just a ton of breweries co-mingling and hanging out and bouncing ideas off of each other, which is amazing. None of this stuff happens in a vacuum. The idea that brewing a beer is science, but so many people on here balk at those brewers trying to define the specifics of the science they use, feels a little tiring. If you don't want to be a nerd about beer, that's fine, but stop saying no one else can. I want all breweries to feel free to try out new things and follow the stream of craft beer as a whole (or god forbid, try to branch out!) and how/when/why it moves. This is a good thing, to me.
Took me a long time to get a hold of a beer from Threat and honestly, I wasn't overly impressed. As you said, they're trying to be like Troon, but based on my experience they're not really close to as good.
I haven't had a big enough sample size or properly tried the original, but we were just talking about WC pils and I think that's an accurate comparison if we continue to see this hyper thick, hop burn thing change. At the moment, I think it's distinct from the current hazy stuff but the sample size is small. The malt character and mouthfeel is different, but I'm just not sure what things will look like after people keep running with the RaR/Troon thing.
That's kind of crazy considering the hype. I'd want to try some but it just seems impossible to get and I guess not worth it.
I was fortunate enough to have a fellow BA offer me can. Gave him so goodies in return of course but that’s one of the many things I love about this community.
Troon is great at what they do; same w/ Lolev. I suspect the trend will follow w/ creating beers that don't necessarily taste like beer. FWIW, I was there at the very beginning of the haze craze (before it got popular). I still drink them, but they tend to wear on me now. P.S. My gf dumped a Troon beer the other day. First time that's ever happened.
