New Mexico Beer Guide 2016 updated

Discussion in 'Southwest' started by ONovoMexicano, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Checked out La Cumbre's Seven Luminaries. I dug it. Probably the best packaged Belgian styled beer I have tried that has come from New Mexico. It reminded me in many ways of Funkwerks's Deceit, which has always been a personal favorite of mine. The cost was shockingly high, I wouldn't buy it again for that reason. But, hey, I am cheap....I also didn't buy any CBS because of its cost.

    Also, Marble's Imperial Stout comes out this Wednesday. One of my personal favorites and one I am always willing to fork over the money for. I even grabbed a 2017 version at Whole Foods this weekend so I can do a side by side so compare fresh vs old.
  2. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Bosque's Public House fhas finally finished their renovations. Full kitchen up and running and they took over the location that had been Wise Pies.

    They started a new series centered on hazy IPA's. First one is now out. Seems decent but I am probably not the best judge for the style. The more of them I drink, the less I get the craziness surrounding them. I am still a sucker for the West Coast IPA. Mix things up with the hop profile in that style and you'll have me hook line and sinker.
    Jawnnm likes this.
  3. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    #683 denver10, Dec 15, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
    ONovoMexicano likes this.
  4. ONovoMexicano

    ONovoMexicano Poo-Bah (2,813) Jun 14, 2012 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    Hard to read Dark Side material, so I am glad you parsed through it and extracted the important info. Haha.

    Today will tell us whether the POstcards From Hell release was an anomaly or not. Looking forward to the beer.

    I enjoyes the 7 Luminaries although I heard many complaints about its Belgian qualities.

    Marble’s Imperial Stout is tasting good. Quarter Celtic’s BA imperial stout was good too and a deal at $19 for a 32 ounce crowler.

    I want to be excited about the Boxing Bear bottle coming out tomorrow, but a 6% stout aged for more than a year in Buffalo Trace barrels seems conceptually flawed.

    I’ll be missing that release. Not bummed.

    But I am bummed to miss Rowley’s bottle release on Sunday. That beer sounds bomb.
  5. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Yeah, I get that. Re: Dark Side. I only caught that piece because I hit up Marble's Facebook page to see what they had on tap, as I plan on heading down there later today to grab some Imperial Stout, and they had posted a link to that interview.

    I enjoyed 7 complaints from me. Am curious to see the turnout for Big Door Prize as well. Don't plan on going today, personally, but I will stop in this week and be happy if they have some remaining on tap.

    And with you regarding the whole 6% year long plus barrel aged stout thing. Seems like the beer is going to get lost in that one. I thought it took Firestone Walker a few years to figure out how to make Velvet Merkin work and that is 8.5%. On top of all that, I have never been all that impressed with that base beer to begin with.
  6. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Some other random things from the other guys.

    Dialogue has a new lager coming out with nelson sauvin hops. A lager and one of my favorite hop varieties? If it is anywhere near as good as Das Palabra was I might need to invest in a kegorator for my house.

    Looks like Bow & Arrow might be getting ready to bottle some of their beer. Saw a picture on their facebook page suggesting as much. Couldn't tell if they are going to go the 6 pack or bomber root. The angle of the shot made the bottles looked smaller, so hopefully 4 or 6 packs. Curious which beers they go with, because this could go in either direction based on their choices. I have been pretty pleased with what these guys are putting out lately, but there's always some duds in the mix as well.

    And a video of Bosque's facility in Bernalillo. Work in progress.

  7. ONovoMexicano

    ONovoMexicano Poo-Bah (2,813) Jun 14, 2012 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    Bow and Arrow’s release is a saison of the wild sort, if I remember correctly.

    Also, their Coyote Waits, the BA mole beer, is tasting fantastic right now.
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  8. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Ended up stopping at La Cumbre after hitting up Marble. Grabbed a pour of Big Door Prize....seems like it should be up most folks alley, but didn't do much for me, personally. Just not into the NE IPA thing I guess.

    That said......loved the bourbon barrel aged Malpais Stout aged with cocoa nibs and coconut on nitro I tried.
    Jawnnm likes this.
  9. aaronyoung01

    aaronyoung01 Crusader (711) Oct 1, 2012 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    Has the BA malpais ever been served not on nitro? I’d be more inclined to go get a pour of that was an option. That being said, I’m excited about Big Door Prize.
    Jawnnm likes this.
  10. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    No idea, this was my first go at it.

    Nitro or not, I really enjoyed it. It was a big and bold enough beer to hold hold up just fine to the nitro. Would love to try a CO2 version of it.
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  11. ONovoMexicano

    ONovoMexicano Poo-Bah (2,813) Jun 14, 2012 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    So Big Door Prize proved Postcards From Hell was not a fluke release. Lines to buy beer are officially a thing in Albuquerque.

    The beer was tasting nice on tap, but I have to again say that the cans are tasting better. I didn't detect Mosaic on tap but it's very prominent coming from the taps. I get a lot of melon and honeydew and damn it's tasting good. Too easy to drink by the way.

    Also cracked a Santuario-Melon from RFA last night and that was tasting marvelous.
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  12. seniorshmently

    seniorshmently Initiate (162) Oct 4, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Hey all, heading to Santa Fe this week to visit my folks for Christmas, does anyone have any NM winter warmer/Christmas beer recommendations I could pick up in SF?
    Also, I try to keep up with this thread as much as possible and I hate to ask such a vague question, but are there any recommendations for other new/seasonal packaged NM beer I should look out for in SF? Cheers and thanks for the help!
  13. erichxedge

    erichxedge Initiate (157) Nov 29, 2009 California
    Beer Trader

    Heading to NM as well on Friday for Xmas. Interested in @seniorshmently question above, but also wanted to see how much La Cumbre sells 4pks out of their brewery for? I plan on stopping at La Cumbre and Jubilation while passing through Albuquerque and then hitting Santa Fe Brewing Co while in SF (only really have time to hit there and Meow Wolf). If anyone has any recs for a bottle shop in Santa Fe as well.

  14. ONovoMexicano

    ONovoMexicano Poo-Bah (2,813) Jun 14, 2012 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    The only packaged Winter Warmer I can think of is Santa Fe Brewing’s Adobe Igloo. Not a fan myself.

    Marble releases an Imperial Stout and Reserve Ale that will warm ya and are in stores right now.

    La Cumbre and Steel Bender are about to release a Brett beer at their locations. If you’re lucky, 4 pack of LC’s Mosaic DIPA, Big Door Prize, may still be found at the brewery (it was brewery only).

    Quarter Celtic might still have their BA imperial stout in crowlers.

    Boxing Bear just released a Buffalo Trace aged stout.

    In Santa Fe, Rowley just released a wild ale aged on cherries. Heard good things.

    Bosque’s got a golden stout aged in bourbon barrels that may still be on tap and bottles are in stores.

    For those going to Santa Fe, I would skip Santa Fe BC and hit Rowley or Second Street.
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  15. seniorshmently

    seniorshmently Initiate (162) Oct 4, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    This is all great, thanks for the info! I always try to snag a Marble Reserve Ale when I'm in town. I was definitely planning on hitting Rowley as well to check out the wild ale you mentioned, it sounds awesome. I hit up Second Street's new location in SF when I was down there this summer and was impressed by their newer offerings. I've always appreciated their approach with sticking to traditional styles, but they seemed to be branching out more and brewing more current and popular styles. @erichxedge this location is right by Meow Wolf, so it would be a convenient stop.
  16. erichxedge

    erichxedge Initiate (157) Nov 29, 2009 California
    Beer Trader

    Just looked up the Second Street right next to Meow Wolf. Looks awesome! Will totally make that a stop!
    aaronyoung01 likes this.
  17. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Priced similar to the stores but you are generally guaranteed something super fresh. Think the oldest Elevated 4 Pack I ever picked up from the brewery was maybe 2 weeks old. Most of the time, though, those 4 packs had been packaged within the week of purchase. I've never had access to such fresh IPA's least I don't think,

    Intererestingly enough, Elevated is one of those IPA's that has a pretty long shelf life to it.
  18. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Drinking my first bottle of 2017 and agreed. First impressions are that this years is a little richer and milk chocolately than I remember it, last years in particular seemed darker and roastier. Obviously it won't be quite an apples vs appleas comparison but looking forward to doing a side by side with my 2016 bottle and my other 2017 bottle.
    aaronyoung01 likes this.
  19. beermeplz

    beermeplz Disciple (337) Feb 13, 2015 California

    is this the consensus on the main spots to hit in santa fe? any other strong recommendations for bars/taprooms?
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  20. ONovoMexicano

    ONovoMexicano Poo-Bah (2,813) Jun 14, 2012 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    Yeah, Rowley and Second Street are the best options and great food at both (Second Street has 3 locations in SF).

    SF doesn’t really have any good beer bars, but New Mexico Hard Cider company is a good spot to find a diverse selection of NM beers. They obviously also have cider (and wine).

    I always recommend Fire and Hops for dining. Excellent restaurant and good beer selection.
  21. erway

    erway Initiate (154) Jul 28, 2006 New Mexico

    I would actually throw Violet Crown on there as well... and you can watch a movie! Meow Wolf is preparing to open their own bar in the space that Duel has been operating and they should have a pretty varied selection of beers as well as full liquor.
  22. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Steel Bender released their first solo bottled beer the other week as well, The Judy.

    It's a brett saison with peach, lemongrass, and rose tips aged in Chardonnay barrels. My bottle was a gusher but I was able to salvage a glass. Drinking it now and pleased.
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  23. HKemhorns

    HKemhorns Initiate (137) Apr 12, 2009 Texas

    Anything new in Ruidoso? Haven't been since last year and it had actually gotten worse. The pharmacy/liquor store stopped carrying Marble.
  24. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,337) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    I will say Fire and Hops has been great when we were there, 3 times now.

    If you like smoked beers, Chili Line Brewing just down from Fire and Hops is worth a stop. We stopped mid Nov. and the Rauchbier was very nice. Comparable to the ones in Bamberg we had mid Sept. Homebrewers that graduated to a Nano, but doing nice Rauchbier.
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  25. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Santa Fe Brewing has a Helles Lager going on tap right now that I really enjoyed. Good enough that I would totally be down with them canning it. I'd be a consistent buyer of it.
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  26. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Marble has a Brett Pale Ale aged in French oak barrels on tap right now. If you like their Brett IPA probably worth giving this a shot. I really enjoyed it.

    Their Imperial Red Ale, though, is tasting great. Best I have tried, and I have always loved it.
    aaronyoung01 likes this.
  27. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Bosque has the rest of their Haze Series on tap right now.

    I tried their West Variation, the one that used the same hop bill as Scale Tipper. I liked it more than the initial one I tried from the series but, really, just wished they would have made another batch of Scale Tipper.
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  28. aaronyoung01

    aaronyoung01 Crusader (711) Oct 1, 2012 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    I'm excited about La Cumbre's new DIPA In The Money that release today. Hopefully it's as good as Postcards from Hell and Dig Door Prize
    adamauden likes this.
  29. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Curiosity got the best of me and I grabbed a pour of 'In The Money' earlier today. I am sure 99% of everyone will be raving about it (and I am sure justifiably so) but I think that has sealed the deal for me that I just do not care for the style, i.e. NE IPA. Just keep throwing Elevated my way.

    Mind Phoq is on tap.....I definitely enjoyed my pour of that. A lot.
    #709 denver10, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  30. mikecampbell411

    mikecampbell411 Initiate (157) Feb 18, 2014 New Mexico

    Hey y'all, I moved to Carlsbad, NM a coulpe of months ago. Can anyone point in the direction of where I can find some great NM beers? All I'm finding at the local Albertsons and Walmart, are the same craft stuff I could get in NY (Ballast, Bells, Sierra Nevada, Stone, etc). The only NM beer I'm able to find is from Santa Fe brewing.
  31. eppCOS

    eppCOS Defender (611) Jun 27, 2015 Colorado
    Premium Member

    +1 on Fire & Hops if you get to Santa Fe -- I think it counts as a great beer bar, just a very deep selection (on draft) sometimes. But when you get lucky there... it rewards. Solid food, too. Just there this past weekend and we larded up on poutine, ramen, etc... and some solid stuff on tap as well. Just wish Bosque/Cumbre had taprooms there (yes, yes, I know about the one that is near the plaza - draft station - solid, but has a weird vibe to it).
    Jawnnm likes this.
  32. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,337) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    When we got into Santa Fe last Nov. our friends were having happy hour at the Thunderbird, which I remembered as someplace I wouldn’t choose. It had been remodeled, and had a pretty good tap list, I had an Elevated, so it was all good.
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  33. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    I was debating whether or not to go here, but decided I will. Feel free to disagree with me.

    I think Bosque is losing me. Not completely, but as a regular. For a while there these guys were my main drinking establishment. They were never my favorite local brewery (La Cumbre and Marble has always maintained that distinction) but they were always a great spot for drinking beer, for beer quality, food and taproom experience. In 2016 they definitely killed it with their taproom only and special 22 ounce bottle releases, such as their The Usual Imperial Pale Ale, Red Lightning, Simcoe Pilsner, Imperial Coffee Brown Ale and its Bourbon Barrel variation, amongst many others. Since then though....I have been continually underwhelmed with just about everything I have tried from them. I have long complained about their flagship lineup being underwhelming, with the exception of their absolutely wonderful Bosque Lager....and that definitely became a problem when their one off and special releases also became duds. In 2017, other than their Bosque Lager, Barrel Aged Scotia, Citra Lager, Scale Tipper and Acequia, I am not sure if they brewed anything of interest to me. That is 6 beers of interest over the course of a year, only 1 of which was available for more than 3 weeks. Yeah, that is not going to cut it.

    That, IMO, is where Bosque finds itself with me. Their Lager is awesome but in a city that offers Marble Pilsner and La Cumbre Beer, that alone is not going to win me over as a regular. The rest of their stuff has pretty much been forgettable at best, weak at worst. I do dig their taproom and appreciate their decent menu, though its become a crapshoot with service if not sitting at the bar since their expansion. End of the day though, I go to a brewery for the beer and Bosque's beer is, IMO, no longer/at this time all that good. Sorry, but that's become my opinion.

    La Cumbre and Marble remain kings of the ABQ for me. Canteen and Bow & Arrow have taken the place of what Bosque had been for me. I know most here don't care for Bow & Arrow but they continue to brew a number of beers i enjoy. And I have totally come around on Canteen. I have always felt Exodus IPA is one of the most underrated ABQ beers, but initially was a bit cool on the rest of their offerings. I have recently come around to them and am definitely a fan now. And Santa Fe, too, is doing some really nice things with their newer releases, 7k IPA is awesome and their recent Helles was too. Lots of good stuff going on in Albuquerque, IMO, and Bosque has not been a part of that/my conversation.

    Just my 2 cents. Again, feel free to disagree.
    #713 denver10, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  34. Oktoberfiesta

    Oktoberfiesta Aspirant (296) Nov 16, 2013 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    @denver10 maybe it's just that time of year weather wise, but I have zero incentive to go to any NM brewery. I tend to agree as a whole, it feels like our scene is in a lull.

    Like nothing excites me at all. My last visit was to Bosque when they had their three Open spaces together, which I really enjoyed. But I'm kind of over NEIPAs. I even missed the line and $7 pours and $17 four packs of in the money (all respectable prices in their own right). But I saved about $80 that day and haven't looked back. I even have a $25 Giftcard to there. I havent renewed my mug club either. Totally slacking. I love their Siberian Silk but cans dont excite me. Total buzz kill you could say.

    I guess you could say Ive gone the budget route a touch. I'll buy AVBC Gose consistently, as well as DFH Sea quench, and LC Beer and Marble Pils (and FW Pivo is a great compliment to marble Pils). But even my taste for piney abrasive IPAs is down a bunch (I was the #1 check in for Elevated and Project Dank for years). Even Dank doesnt excite me. I'm okay with drinking stuff I've had before.

    There are probably more breweries in town now that I haven't visited than those that I have. I wonder how they are doing. I havent heard much from 377, starr brothers, drafty kilt, bombs away, nexus, desert valley, palmers,b2b, quarter celtic. Havent been to Bow and arrow in a year, nor Boese or red door. Are all these places churning out quality products? Are they staying busy? Maybe I havent looked hard enough. I just feel other areas are being more innovative, and I'm done dropping hard earned money on 5-6 of the same core lineup beers at every place in town. I guess I'm ready for a unique experience, and I havent found it here yet.

    As far as Bosque, I think I will wait until they can their own stuff to start buying again. That contract stuff is a total drag.

    For now, I'm happy with the lighter ABQ options, with marble pils and LC Beer. Maybe my taste buds are just shot from months/years of drinking the hoppy stuff.
  35. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Time of year is definitely influencing my taproom visits; i.e. cutting them down but definitely not out lot. Dark and chilled outside makes staying in a lot more inviting.

    I don't know if I have an issue with the local (ABQ) scene as a whole. I think La Cumbre and Marble are going strong, I think Bow & Arrow is trending up, Canteen is putting out some really good stuff these days, Santa Fe's newest beers have been a really nice surprise. At least, IMO. Having 5 local breweries that keep me interested is pretty good.

    With that said, I also get your point about there being a lull. Despite the "growth" I am not sure the scene looks that different from what it was when I first moved down here. Lots of new breweries, but the quality of beer being brewed here in ABQ hasn't improved much. Other than, IMO, Bow & Arrow, the new guys haven't been bringing the scene up. The beer quality is, at its best, often just good enough to work for spots where people are just as interested in the location and its convenience, its vibe, and its service as they are in the beer. So as long as the beer is decent (enough) these places can get away with that.

    One thing that I think can get lost on us beer geeks, especially tickers, is that when one does stick to a specific beer and/or brewery, it can grow on you. What was initially decent but enjoyable can creep into becoming one of your staple drinks after trying it on multiple occasions. I think that is happening a lot with these breweries. I guess that is good for those businesses but is not doing us any favors. For discerning drinkers like us, where beer is the primary focus, these guys are not offering us much of value and there wouldn't appear to be much incentive for these businesses to do anything different - if what they are doing is good enough for them to bring in a crowd. I guess it probably limits their business plan to remain smaller in scope, i.e. neighborhood brewery, but if that can be enough to satisfy the owners and pay their bills than why mess with a working formula?

    In addition to the whole quality issue, there is a whole lot of variation of the same theme going on in Albuquerque. I think if you were to look at every breweries taplist (omitting beer name, just identifying style), not knowing which taplist was from which brewery, you could not guess which taplist came from which brewery, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. I get ABQ is a smaller market but Fort Collins is smaller too and they have some variety up there with places like Funkwerks (focusing on Belgian Styled beers), Zwei (focusing on German Styled beers) going strong. It certainly helps that the quality of beer those guys are brewing is elite...but they are making it work. If our market can allow so many substandard breweries to exist, why can't we offer a few niche type breweries?They don't have to commit 100% to a specific style/genre, that style/genre could just be their focus with a few money maker styles made available for $$$ purposes? I thought that was the direction Dialogue was going but their beer has been so up and down in quality I haven't been paying enough attention to them to really know. It's too bad, at least for me, that Rowley is up in Santa Fe.

    Beer bars are still completely MIA in ABQ too. I think this point has been mentioned enough that I won't repeat the points already made. But it is disappointing to a degree that with the growth of our scene, it has not been enough to allow for a beer bar to exist and thrive, alas Falling Rock Taphouse, Tap n Handle, etc.

    Anyways...I get that these past couple posts of mine might be a little critical but I am generally pleased with our scene. I think our scene is B league, which is solid but not special. I do think we are extremely fortunate to have La Cumbre and Marble in town, both of whom I consider to be elite and, alone, make this scene a definite positive in my eyes. But, yeah, it isn't a perfect scene and there is certainly plenty of room for improvemenet/development. Right now I think ABQ is more about quantity over quality...would love to see it shift to quality over quantity.

    And regarding hop fatigue...I am going the opposite direction....I have never been one to drink an IPA as my everyday beer but since this past Fall, Elevated has been my go to beer, even moreso than Marble's Pilsner....which has been my staple since moving down here. Been absolutely loving Elevated lately.
  36. erway

    erway Initiate (154) Jul 28, 2006 New Mexico

    Well I think I can speak for Marble as well when I say that we appreciate that you recognize the work that we are doing. I think that both breweries would stand out in any market in the country. That being said, I had a Canteen Pils and their Panama Joe last weekend and those were as good as any I have had. Just world class those two beers.

    As far as the breweries specializing in Belgians, Brits or Germans... I don't see it happening soon. Breweries like Zwei are brewing IPAs as well as their German-style lagers. When you go into a place like Prost, Bierstadt or Hogshead, as much as I might love them, they are not busy. Even during GABF, I could walk into Bierstadt on Wednesday evening at 5 and walk right up the bar and get a beer right away. And that's in Denver. I would LOVE to put together a German-focused brewery. But in this current market I don't dare. Call me chicken.

    As far as the beer bars... that's tough. I personally feel that Falling Rocks and the like are over. Not that these places will die, but I don't see new places being able to do it successfully. And in our market, trying to do 30 constantly rotating taps of out-of-state breweries is very challenging from a quality standpoint. What's the chance of getting anything fresh from just about any of the major regionals with any regularity? And so your stuck trying to pick from the locals and there are only so many options. Add onto that, if you don't really carry much in the way of core beers, most breweries will not put you on their allocated lists... It would be a very tough market to try to do a good beer bar in.

    New breweries... so yeah, turns out brewing great beer is not easy. Turns out not everyone can do it. It's not just our market. Trust me, every market in this country has at least a few breweries that have opened in the past year that really are incredibly, hopelessly awful. This is not helped at all by the fact that a lot of people that made money elsewhere saw the success of the local breweries, thought to themselves "hey, that looks like a more fun way to get rich than what I am currently doing" and went and opened themselves a brewery. This worked for many for years because they were filling a void in a rapidly growing market. Not so much today.

    From the overall business of craft beer standpoint this is really problematic. It won't make me very popular to say this publicly, and it certainly sounds protectionist, but the new small breweries that are struggling to make it are actually doing an enormous disservice to the industry as a whole. Sales for good regional breweries are down. Craft beer sales at bars and restaurants are down. Sales at local independent liquor stores are down. And we have 30 or so ho hum tap rooms in this town taking up maybe $100,000/week in craft beer sales. Are any of them making any net profit? Nope, not really. But that business is coming from somewhere. The bar, restaurant and independent store owners are getting pissed at their loss of business and blame the local craft breweries for it, and to a point, rightfully so. Some good established regional breweries are pulling out of markets that were once profitable, but the sheer noise of that market has made it no longer viable. While these small breweries gross is taking away from the gross of other businesses including in and out-of-state breweries, it is not creating much if any net for them or the craft beer industry as a whole.

    Marble, La Cumbre and several other established breweries are just fine. The businesses are stable and profitable. Growth has slowed just like it has for every brewery around the country. The big question now is when will the number of breweries closing equal or surpass the number of breweries opening.

    "Saturation" is relative. And I don't believe there will be this doomsday bubble. What I do believe is that the craft breweries of this country have finally caught up with demand. Those that got in in the last 2 years or are planning on opening now first off have really bad timing, and secondly, better be pretty amazing.

    Eventually, the owners will get sick of losing money as is the case with several of the breweries in this town. Others will get sick of working their tails off 70+ hours/week for $30k/year. The question is which established breweries get taken down in all of the noise in the meantime.

    I really hope you all continue to go out of your way to support the local breweries that you love and the local bars, restaurants and retailers that support good beer. I hope you all continue to call a duck a duck and when a brewery can't make good beer, don't go there and tell your friends why you don't go there. More selection does not = good selection and in order for the good breweries to thrive, there will have to be some slimming of the herd.

    In the meantime, it's business as usual for the rest of us. Once again, I always appreciate reading your thoughts. And may the beers you drink in 2018 be even better than the beers you drank in 2017. Cheers!
  37. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Overall, thanks for that response. Lots of interesting info to digest there.

    I think that question really sticks out for me. All the talk is always about when the market becomes saturated it will be survival of the fittest and the it will be the weak who get weeded out. But I think that question and point (supported by a lot of your comments in your post there) illustrates that that isn't quite the case.

    Also.....drinking a Siberian Silk right now and it is baltic porter i have yet to try...but I think I enjoyed your Chew & Swallow Oatmeal Stout even more.

    Random request/question: Is there any chance that you could start posting the ABV on these limited run cans? If I didn't read it on your board in your taproom, I would have never known this beer was 9.3% abv and I could have gotten myself in a lot of trouble with this one.
    aaronyoung01 likes this.
  38. erway

    erway Initiate (154) Jul 28, 2006 New Mexico

    Honestly, it feels like its as arbitrary as who and what are sexy in the market. There are several good breweries, not just Smuttynose, that are royally FUBAR.

    Thanks for the kind words. As far as ABV, I wish we were so confident in our brewing that we could, with 99% accuracy, predict the results of a brew several months beforehand, when we're making the label. Unfortunately, we can pretty easily predict starting gravity, with a recipe that has only been tried a few times, but predicting terminal gravity can be a little trickier. I'll look into posting on our date coding text.
    Jawnnm, JJFoodie and denver10 like this.
  39. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Would definitely appreciate the abv being stamped on with the date of canning. Thanks.

    Anyways....Santa Fe just dropped their 7K IPA In 16 ounce 4-packs......for $6.50 a pop. I don't think anyone can compete with that in terms of value. Its a great beer, IMO, at pretty much in incredible price point in this market.

    I also love the 16 ounce format for this beer....I didn't find this beer to age gracefully at all, so not having to commit to a 6 pack (with my drinking patterns) is a definite plus.

    Marble must have learned from their single hop pale ale series, which was dreadful (IMO), because they are now starting to release a bunch of single hop IPA's and IIPA's and of the ones I have tried, all have been really damn good. Right now they have a single hop Citra IPA and single hop Galaxy IIPA. Both are winners.

    Bow & Arrows first bottle release is coming out at their 2 year anniversary....a Brett Wine Barrel Aged Quad.

    Canteen just released (and canned) an American Pilsner called Laid Back Lager. Very well done.
    #719 denver10, Feb 2, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  40. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,272) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    Looks like it is doppelbock season as both La Cumbre and Marble have a couple great ones going right now. I was wrong for so long on these guys. Revisited High Plains Pilsner and this one is really good and kinda 180 from my initial take on it. I remember trying this a couple years back when I first moved down here and finding it underwhelming....I was either an idiot that day or they have since dialed things in since then. Either way, another great lager for this city. I'll still take a Marble Pilsner to this personally...but I prefer German Pilsners to Czech Pilsners in general, so I am biased. Either way, great beer. They also have an imperial stout on tap, Obey the Darkside, that is really good. For those like me who love dark, roasty, burnt and bitter stouts that is this beer in all its glory.

    Bow & Arrow released their Quad fermented in red wine barrels with brett today. Solid.
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