New pils tasting results

Some of the smaller ones are making great pilsners, but unfortunately, the average German doesn't care. Even the German beergeeks are into hops right now - at least as far as I can tell.

 

Great point. Thinking over my previous thoughts on this topic, where I vehemently asked for German craft brewers to revitalize lost styles, it's becoming apparent that most startups are (young) brewers who have never brewed a Zoigl or a Gose. Easiest to brew and impress is still an IPA... just like in the states I think it will take a learning curve which will take quite a while. I have to say also, that even as a BA, I am not knowledgeable about how they are SUPPOSED to taste - my 1st Gose was from Anderson Valley last year... who woulda thunk? And, I must admit, I enjoyed it thoroughly. As I have stated before, it's the Gatorade of beer. hahaha!

 

That's the thing, I had several US inspired german craft beers which were enjoyable. But I think I only once or twice had a good "traditional" german beer by a hip,new german craft beer startup. Most of the time, it's infected Pils, Export that for some reason has a weird banana note, overly sludgy Kellerbier with the texture of potatoe soup...
I can imagine it is this way, not only because maybe they lack lack the skills to make a proper lager on a small scale, but also because they don't LIKE those beers themselves or probably never had proper examples of those things so they have no idea what makes a good Helles,Pils,Weizen or Export really shine. I mean not in bavaria, but think of people from Hamburg or Berlin, where many new breweries are which fail at these styles.
Otherwhise, I think Heidenpeters from Berlin and Crew from Munich were the first ones who did nothing but international or american inspired ales. Before that, also the small ones who tried to experiment mainly still had "Pils, Helles,Weizen" as their core lineup, and stuff like IPAs or stouts were more of an afterthought than the core products, so to me it does not seem surprising when some try their hands on a Pils.

Uhm- nearly no one knows how Gose is supposed to taste. It died out, all the Goses you'll find in and around Leipzig are remakes themselves to some degree. I really like bayerischer Bahnhof Gose, but I fear it is not sour enough. But who knows. The Döllnitzer Ritterguts Gose, before they changed breweries some time ago, was really awesome and I only can imagine close to what it is "supposed" to be like. But as I said, nearly no one still knows.

 

Tony (@boddhitree) in the past would keep us up to date on Pax Brau brewery. I recall that one of his favorite Pax Brau beers was Cissy IPA. I wonder what sorts of beers Andreas Seufer is brewing now?

Cheers!

 

I had severalPax Beers, including a Rauchbier, but what amazes me the most is-the standard Vollbier is very,very solid.

 

Since Vollbier is just a standard for gravity/alcohol level it does not indicate a style per se. What style of beer is the Pax Brau Vollbier?

Cheers!

Edit: Never mind I discovered it is a Munch Dunkel (with a bit of smoke flavor).

Below is an extract from Tony's (@boddhitree) review of this beer; it does indeed read like a tasty beer!

"What I really like about this brewer is his philosophy and ability to think outside the box and innovate while being traditional. Check out his resumé. First he was in Ho Chi Min City, then a few German places, then China, then Russia and finally opened his own place.

The fact that he's doing it in traditional Oberfranken is cool, too. Actually, it's on the Bavarian side near the eastern German state of Thüringen.

Now to the Vollbier:
Aroma is very maltly, a little caramel but no smoke as stated above, but very strong and full.

Initially, a lot of malt flavor, and I mean A LOT, which is great, but embedded inside that is a smokey flavor bursting out. However, unlike a normal Rauchbier, the smokiness is not the main aspect you taste; rather, it's a nice compliment to the Caramel or Münchener malts inside. This is a great beer."

 

I would not classify it as a Münchner Dunkel, since those are dark and have this characterstic "nutty" taste which Pax Vollbier lacks.
Pax is more of an amber in color and is close to the dark-amber lagers of upper franconia,which also sometimes have a slightly smoky touch.

 

Perhaps you could file a request with the BA moderators to change the style name?

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/31320/96591/

Cheers!

 

I don't think there's any question that hop extract can be used to good effect in achieving bitterness, but it is less useful for producing hop aromatic beers. Warsteiner has been discussed here before and up until recently they listed only hop extracts for their pilsner, and there are other German pilsners which also only use hop extracts. When pilsners gain mass-market popularity whilst shedding their hop aromatics and hop flavors (on top of lowering IBUs, lowering gravities, upping attenuation etc.), I can see why there would be criticism directed at the use of these hop extracts. They aren't saying that Förster pils only uses hop extract, only that it does list its use on the label, and if you go to the brewery's website they list hops (i.e pellets) ahead of hop extracts in the ingredients list.

It should be noted of course that early boil hop additions was a common feature of Bavarian brewing, and that late boil additions was more commonly associated with Austrian and Bohemian brewing. So straight up bitterness isn't ahistorical as far as lager beer goes (and I certainly enjoy a bitter beer), but late boil additions are certainly an important part of Bohemian lager beer brewing and of later German adaptations of Bohemian lager beers, i.e pilsners.

 

Only being the key word here -- I'm no advocate of using extract as a complete substitute -- even Pilsner Urquell uses it. If corners are being cut and a resulting beer doesn't taste as should be expected, that's not a good thing. But if extract is used properly and doesn't make you notice the difference, who's to complain?

 

There is a Franconian style of lager which does not really have a name. You are right to point out that Vollbier is really a gravity band, but this style is also sometimes just called Vollbier, or occasionally Dunkel. Some breweries make only this style. It is paler (amber to bronze), less attenuated and hoppier than a Munich-style Dunkel.

 

That's the thing, is it a style? Really?I lived in franconia for 7 years and had hundreds of amber lagers. Yes,sometimes they were called "Dunkles",sometimes "Vollbier". And they all were very different from one another. Sometimes so different that I'll argue the concept of "style" does not really work for them, at least the way it is used around here. I mean, two of my favorite beers fall under this category, Büchenbacher Vollbier and Leupser Dunkel, but they are both radically different- the first is light and soft and lightly hopped,while the latter is way more hop-forward and malty at the same time. Though both are amber lagers from upper franconia and come from villages a few mere kilometers away, they drink very different.
That's why this:

would make no sense- bA has no way of classifying this kind of beer properly.

 

Apropos... I found a very cool tutorial on Facebook that shows how Bavarians open a pilsner bottle. It's not too hard to learn, and will help anyone during their travels through Bayern.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1191989767490496

 

In 2014, Krombacher was #4 (of 8), Becks was #7 and Berliner Pils #8.
In 2015, Schultheiß Pils was #4, and Bitburger #8 (of 8)

 

Just for information: Gampert brewery, who makes Förster-Pils, still has it's own maltings. You don't find that very often. Second, the label says "hop and hop extract". That means, they use pellets, and add extract if necessary (for whatever reason).