No Starter Competition Results Poll

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Sep 17, 2012.

?

Have you ever won a significant first place without making a starter? SEE FULL QUESTION IN MESSAGE.

  1. Yes I have (and I'll provide details in a reply).

    8 vote(s)
    21.1%

  2. No. I have entered beers meeting this description, but have not won a first place.

    8 vote(s)
    21.1%

  3. No. But I have not tried with a beer fitting this description.

    22 vote(s)
    57.9%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Given the claims by some that a single vial or smack pack of yeast is adequate for 5 gallons of 1.060 wort, and can even make 'great' beer, and the counter-claims that it will not make the best beer possible, I think a good datapoint might be competition results. Unfortunately there's no data respository to exploit, but there is the experience of BAs here. So, the survey question...

    FULL QUESTION: Have you ever won a first place in category/flight in a BJCP sanctioned competition with at least 200 total entites and at least 6 entries in your category/flight, with a beer that had an OG of 1.055 or higher, with a single Wyeast smackpack or White Labs vial of yeast (Saccharomyces strain) pitched directly (no starter) into 5 or more gallons of wort?

    If pitching a single vial or smack pack into 5 gallons of wort up to 1.060 OG can make great beer, we ought to get a lot of YES responses, given the many successful competition brewers on this forum. If you do respond Yes, please give particulars.
     
    #1 VikeMan, Sep 17, 2012
  2. StarRaptor

    StarRaptor Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2010 California

    yes, but in lue of a starter I just used multiple vials
     
    #2 StarRaptor, Sep 17, 2012
  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    That would be No then. (See the full question in my message.)
     
    #3 VikeMan, Sep 17, 2012
    inchrisin likes this.
  4. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    #4 barfdiggs, Sep 17, 2012
  5. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    #5 yinzer, Sep 17, 2012
    blacklabelbrewer and NiceFly like this.
  6. MMAJYK

    MMAJYK Initiate (0) Jun 26, 2007 Georgia

    No. The only beers I've taken anything significant with have been dry yeast (us-05) or liquid yeast with starters. I have voted as such.
     
    #6 MMAJYK, Sep 17, 2012
  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Nutz. Sorry. Change my yes to no as well. I overlooked several of the full question details.
    It was with a single pack of dry yeast and the beer was probably not over 1.055, either. And I have no idea about # of entries.
     
    #7 pweis909, Sep 17, 2012
  8. JimmyTango

    JimmyTango Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 California

    #8 JimmyTango, Sep 17, 2012
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    #9 VikeMan, Sep 17, 2012
  10. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    You're assuming I can read.... big assumption.

    I've got 8 beers in a comp this weekend getting judged (Single vial pitches for some), along with some San Diego Super Yeast coming on Friday that I'll use starter free, so maybe theres a chance I can answer yes in the future.

    Double Ninja edit... yes, I have. Forgot about this IPA...

    http://pacificgravity.org/pacific-breweres-cup-results/
     
    #10 barfdiggs, Sep 17, 2012
  11. RichardMNixon

    RichardMNixon Maven (1,431) Jun 24, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Because it was dry yeast? Perhaps I'm missing something, but wouldn't that be even more aberrant? I'd think liquid yeast was healthier and therefore less in need of a starter than dry yeast. Why are starters only needed for liquid?
     
    #11 RichardMNixon, Sep 17, 2012
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, because the question was about liquid yeast. Dry yeast, even the smallest sachets that I know of, has a higher cell count. And no, there's nothing inherently healthier about liquid yeast as compared to dry.
     
    #12 VikeMan, Sep 17, 2012
  13. Soonami

    Soonami Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    If you are trying to prove that you need a starter to brew great beer, this is a poor way to get at that question.

    This is an unfair question because there is sampling bias. Most competition brewers probably aren't going to brew without a starter or repitching on a yeast cake anyway. When my friends brew for comps they'll use WLP001 or Wyeast 1056 and pitch a single smack pack into a cream ale and then rack off, wash the yeast and make an APA, then use the same yeast for an IPA, DIPA, barleywine and/or Imperial Stout. They aren't going to buy a fresh batch of yeast for every brew because it isn't economical or efficient.

    Also, if someone is going to spend $6 for entry + shipping, they'll probably make a starter just in case, whether or not it will improve their beer.
     
    #13 Soonami, Sep 17, 2012
    coreyfmcdonald and warchez like this.
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Maybe. Write a better question, and we'll use it. As long as it doesn't involve people personally assessing the quality of their own beer.

    I believe you are right about the practice, and wrong about the reason (in general, but perhaps your friends are exceptions). I think it has much more to do with quality and very little to do with economics.
     
    #14 VikeMan, Sep 17, 2012
  15. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I guess even my correction is incomplete, because there are two possible no's. No, I never entered a competition with a beer fitting this description.
     
    #15 pweis909, Sep 18, 2012
  16. CASK1

    CASK1 Pundit (951) Jan 7, 2010 Florida

    I've been brewing for >20 years, and competing almost as long. I only started making starters about 5 years ago (don't know what took me so long!). Along the way I took a few golds and even 2 BOS. Unfortunately I've changed how I record recipes over the years and don't have the details anymore. That said, I firmly believe starters are key to making the best beer, and I would not consider brewing now without one.
    Cheers!
     
    #16 CASK1, Sep 18, 2012
    inchrisin likes this.
  17. bgjohnston

    bgjohnston Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2009 Connecticut

    I don't enter competitions, but for what it's worth, my best beers have all either used a starter or were a re-pitch onto a healthy yeast cake.
     
    #17 bgjohnston, Sep 18, 2012
  18. RichardMNixon

    RichardMNixon Maven (1,431) Jun 24, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Is there a good reason to use liquid yeast then? Is it something like liquid+starter>dry>liquid no starter?
     
    #18 RichardMNixon, Sep 18, 2012
  19. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Liquid yeast offers more options.
     
    #19 OddNotion, Sep 18, 2012
  20. Soonami

    Soonami Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    Economics and efficiency mean not only money, but also use of time and ingredients.
     
    #20 Soonami, Sep 18, 2012
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