North Carolina to Phoenix

@RobH we saw what things were like without the large stores like Total Wine or BevMo about 2005-ish and prior - the prices were much higher, especially in wine & spirits, and it was so bad I was bringing "ordinary" stuff back from California, Nevada, and Colorado. We were getting reamed. Especially from Sportsman's, a local place with several locations. Thank God they went out of business. If anything, Total Wine and BevMo deserve credit and not the local places because they opened up stores all across the valley here and raised awareness of available products. That is much more effective at raising awareness than having a mere handful of local bottle shops, and in some cases completely leaving out entire sections of the metro area here (back then). The consumers here finally got to see some realistic competition once the normal, large sized stores came to the valley.

Regarding warm bottles, this is an irrelevant point for anything with fast turnaround and especially seasonal/rare stuff that sells within days. I didn't check prices this year, but last year there was a $5+ price difference per sixpack on Hopslam and it sold out within days everywhere. If supporting local means that much to you for identically fresh product then I guess I admire someone for putting their money where their mouth is.

Plus, smaller places don't necessarily keep the stock entirely cold. It isn't uncommon for there to be movement from warm shelf display to cold display when the stock inventory changes and such - so never assume that the cold beer has always been cold unless it is a place that only sells cold. Also, let's not forget the convenience of ordinary shopping hours. If you don't appreciate that, then try to get some bottles to go at 10 am from Papago, for example. When do they open, noon? And like @breadwinner said, watch out for bottle dates and such at Tops and others - I've found some very old/expired stuff there too.

Many of the posts in these threads are really just spreading the locavorism/localism ideology and not necessarily just some pure, innocent concern for helping out a customer.

 

Thanks Rob, I didn't know all that about Total Wine. Sorry but it doesn't really change my opinion about shopping for warm bottled beer there exposed to harmful UV light or having the profits go to some out of state corporation instead of to those who are the backbone of the local craft beer market but it was a good response.

 

What I endeavor to do is advocate for beer in every way to encourage others to try it, no matter where they might ultimately buy it. While doing so, it is my personal goal to not cast stones at others in the industry who may be competitors on the one hand, but are on the other hand brothers and sisters in bringing good beer to the people.

Where your comments appear to be disingenuous, whether with such intent or not, is with the consistent comments casting TWM negatively such as, "shopping for warm bottled beer there exposed to harmful UV light." This is disingenuous in the face of reality, considering your favorite named store there in AZ has photos on their own website showing many hundreds of beers, in packs and large bottles, merchandised on warm shelves and all under store lighting. An explanation as to in what way that differs from TWM would be appreciated. This is no ding on "your" store, because frankly warm beer on shelves is where the majority of beer is in 98% of the BeerAdvocate Top Beer stores across the country. That's just the way it is. And on a related note; those who believe all beer has been kept cold from bottling through the entire distribution system until it hits the store shelves would be very disappointed to learn that's not true.

In my view, sir, this type of rhetoric is not advocating for beer to people who come on this website seeking information and advice. As for "staying local", believe me I get it, yet perhaps my world view differs a bit based on my personal background as a Navy veteran, since while serving I was serving ALL of the U.S., not just my home state or home town. I personally don't disparage people who've successfully built large companies that now span beyond one town and one state. That's American business creating American jobs. Follow your version of the American dream while staying within the law, and you're cool with me.

Not looking to change your mind or personal choices, sir, nor do I expect to. I'm just speaking up in an attempt to correct the record where I see misstatements or misperceptions being made on subject matter of which I have direct knowledge.

May you have a great weekend filled with great beer.

Rob

 

Nothing disingenuous at all. I do not advocate buying warm beer and/or beer exposed to uv lights, (especially hoppy beers which the OP was looking for)which sadly is the case at many beer stores, which includes TWM along with many other places, all else being equal I also advocate buying from places that I know have a love of craft beer and that passionately support craft breweries. I don't believe that to be the case at TWM, Bevmo or Costco. As to the picture on Papagos website. Take another look. It is a picture of their cooler, which uses special uv protection. You are correct that a lot of places do sell beer warm and exposed to light. That doesn't make it right or a best practice. I have never ever seen them sell beer or store beer that was held out of their cooler or exposed to uv light. Thanks for your service to the country.

 

OK.

To clarify, I was referring to the photos on the Tops Liquors/Sun Devil website, as they are retail stores first and foremost, and you mentioned them first in your list of go-to places. Most breweries, such as Papago, carry a much more limited number of beers (namely their own) bottled for retail sale-take home, which are generally kept in some reach-in coolers which amount to less cooler space than most retail stores have.

Papago's cooler likely uses LED lighting, which TWM's coolers do as well. Perhaps they have some type of UV-blocking film on the glass which is great since there's likely ambient sunlight reaching that area. TW's coolers are in the back of the store, out of reach from any sunlight given the store size and relatively small amount of window exposure in TW stores.

Anyhow, this has been a very good communication. Much appreciated.

Cheers to beer,
Rob

 

Wow, when will this debate ever end. It seems like every year the whole warm vs cold debate and light exposure pops up. RobH, Bigbelcher and Yemenmocha all have some valid points. For RobH, He is right, a large percentage of craft beer is sold off of warm store shelves, to Total Wines credit I think they do an outstanding job of discounting seasonal items and products about to be out of date. Something that Mom and Pop stores have a hard time monitoring. Yemenmocha is correct that it is ok to shop there, especially for new releases that haven't had time to sit on a store shelf or had a long exposure to light, and they do move a fair amount of beer. Bigbelcher is correct that warm store shelves and light are not good for beer, especially hoppy beers. In some tests that I participated in with other Arizona craft brewers we were able to tell a difference in certain unpasteurized bottled craft beers that were on store shelves for as little as two weeks-that doesn't mean they were bad-just that we were able to begin to notice a taste difference and it was primarily due to light as we did cans alongside bottles and could not notice any taste difference in cans for about 2 months. We also did it with bottles kept cold but exposed to light (ala Supermarkets that have coolers but no doors with pretty similar results.) Cold beer has at least twice the shelf life of room temperature beer. Unprotected from UV light beers as I mentioned can start to change in a couple of weeks. Of course clear and green bottles offer no UV protection and brown bottles are best but they are not impervious to becoming lightstruck and the hoppier they are the faster you will begin to see a difference.

Oh -And Rob H, we do not carry a much more limited selection of beer as many breweries might. We have 13 windows with about 500 different varieties and we routinely weed out the slower sellers to bring in new releases. We do have UV blocking film on both our windows and cooler windows and UV protection on our cooler lights and the cooler is located in the back as well and 100% of the beer is kept cold at all times. We take as much precaution as we can to serve our customers the freshest tasting beer we can. I know, we are the exception, not the rule but that doesn't mean others like Total Wine, Bevmo, Sun Devil and others can't follow suit some day and treat beer as the perishable and fragile product that it is and deserves to be treated as. Because we know others don't treat beer the same as we do is why we started canning our beer as it offers the best defense against the elements.