Northeast Pales/IPA/DIPA

Probably the same way Lagunitas does as they also use an English strain.

 

I use Pale Malt, I've used Pearl and Marris Otter, but mostly use Canada Malting Pale Malt. Its slightly darker than then your standard 2-row and a bit more nuttier imo. I think that with the plain old Quaker Oats get me that orange color.

 

Maybe they are big enough to have a centrifuge?

Edit: They are, "In 2010/2011 we invested $7M in capital improvements that included a new centrifuge" source

 

Wouldn't a centrifuge simply accelerate the crashing process? If removing yeast and other solids through a centrifuge doesn't reduce hop aroma and/or change mouthfeel, then it shouldn't via gravity either.

 

Wow! This thread has really evolved into a technical discussion.

Below is something I posted previously in another thread:

“…below is what Odell states for why they changed from filtering to using a centrifuge:

“We took an innovative leap forward in amplifying the quality of our beers here at Odell by making the switch from filtration to centrifugation without the aid of filtration or clarification aids like diatomaceous earth (DE) for all of our previously filtered beers. For those unfamiliar with centrifugation and why we believe it to be a superior method to beer clarification, here is a little explanation for you: Unlike filtration which relies on DE to strip out yeast, hop and protein particulate from the beer, a centrifuge relies on centrifugal force for beer clarification. A centrifuge works by spinning the beer at very high speeds thereby creating high G forces which removes the heaviest particles (i.e. yeast and hops) from the beer. Since the beer is never passed through a filter media the essential hop oils and fine proteins that contribute to improved hop flavor and aroma, as well as improved body and mouthfeel, are not stripped from the beer. The centrifuge process is therefore much gentler on the beer and results in the following significant quality improvements.”

Cheers!

Jack

 

I think it goes without saying in a setting like this forum that yeast selection plays a big difference on your final overall hop character of the beer. Certain yeasts can mute or possibly mask the hop aroma (more charge on the cell membrane maybe??) and reduce overall perceived bitterness. I for one was hoping White Labs was going to be putting out a more comprehensive study on their findings in this department, but to this point, I haven't heard of one being released.

But some pointers gleaned from John Kimmich at the Alchemist....first he does only one round of dry hops, not layered in, but I've wondered if there is some form of agitation that occurs. Second he does wait for fermentation to be complete and some flocculation to occur before dry hopping. I've also seen his FVs and they are relatively flat bottomed to fit in a very low ceiling building...this would be more like most homebrewer setups though which makes me believe the single stage dry hops. Finally he did mention there is something 'different' that he does...what that is...i haven't a clue, but possibilities
• cooling for whirlpool phase
• some form of agitation for dry hopping
• dry hopping under some pressure (like Trillium)
• some form of hop torpedo/randall on the way to the bright tank or canning line

all guesses...

 

So all this talk has got me using londonIII for my wet hopped pale tomorrow. I am also going hold my bucket and spin in circles til it drops clear...

 

I hope that you don't get too dizzy!

The things we do for beer!!

Cheers!

 

Yes and no, it would remove the yeast, but it might not have the same impact as cold on the "free" oils.

 

FWIW, Troegs uses a centrifuge to filter their beers, and their house ale strain is WLP001. Troegs makes some very tasty hoppy beers, but they definitely don't have that NE characteristic. It seems like English ale strains may be the common theme for that juicy mouthfeel in heavily hopped beers and that the haze is incidental or a product of fast turn-around times from kettles to can.

 

Lots of interesting discussion and speculating in this thread.

@JCTetreault of Trillium posted:

· “We use a very flocculant strain!’

· “Re: unmalted/raw/flaked adjunct...we don't use that in every hop forward beer. Actually, a relatively small % of our hop forward beers contain them.”

From the above it does not appear that yeast in suspension is the source of their murkiness.

Given what was posted by the Trillium person, it does not necessarily seem to me that a non-flocculent English strain is the ‘silver bullet’ here.

Cheers!

 

But, an English Strain does seem to be a prominent player... by "very flocculant strain!" I'm assuming @JCTetreault is referring to 1968/002 which still has more character than 001/1056 and produces a lower and smoother IBU perception.

 

It sounds like there are a number of English strains that seem to do the trick, some flocculant and some not so much. Conan is reportedly of English decent even.

 

My post was "non-flocculent English strain is the ‘silver bullet’ here."

I have no personal comment on whether there is a 'trend' of English yeast strain since I do not know exactly which yeast strain Trillium uses.

Do you know for a fact which yeast strain Trillium is using?

As a reminder I previously posted: "Lots of interesting discussion and speculating in this thread."

Cheers!

 

I have read that rumor concerning Conan too:

“Conan is rumored to have an English origin, and gained a foothold in New England thanks to its use by Greg Noonan at Vermont Pub & Brewery.”

I wonder how many generations of mutations need to occur before a yeast is ‘classified’ as being a ‘different’ strain.

Cheers!

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2013/11/conan-ipa-and-yeast.html

 

Yes, their house strain...

 

It took a while for the ‘lightbulb’ to illuminate but….

Below are the contents of a chart that was part of Mitch Steele’s presentation at the recent NHC in San Diego:

“The “New” East Coast IPA ?

•Wheat malt 5-20%

•Unfiltered

•Chill haze and yeast content

•Hopped like West Coast IPA

•American hops-newer varietals

•Southern Hemisphere hops???”

No mention by Mitch Steele of English ale yeast strain.

Cheers!

 

Sounds on point. I'm surprised there is little talk about the copious amounts of dry hopping causing haze in these beers.
EDIT: I do realize it was touched on, but how much haze can dryhopping add? Is there a saturation point?

 

One thing about the "New England/vermont" ipa is are there any that can be brewed in large quantities such as a lagunitas, stone, bells etc? It seems all these style IPAs are such a small batch that copious amounts of hops can be used. In a podcast from Mitch he mentions that using such large amounts dry hops it soaks up a lot of beer and larger breweries can't use such large quantities as it kills production.

Can this style of ipa be brewed on a much larger scale? On the west coast I saw a similar scenario with alpine and green flash. The green flash versions don't see to have the same hop aroma and juicy:concentration of hops. I think scale has something to do with that.

Who cares really about the hazy factor but how do they seem to have a softer and fuller mouthfeel? Is that the oats/wheat? Or is it that plus the use of suspended yeast gives it a fuller body?

I believe

 

Treehouse will make more Julius this year than all other years combined. Having said that, still nowhere near the scale of the other breweries you mentioned.