Oak Chips or Barrel?

The rap on oak chips is the impart there flavor quickly because of their high surface area to mass, and the impart a mono-dimensional flavor because there is very little gradient in the toast level within a chip (as opposed to a cube, which experiences a gradient in toastedness from the exterior to the center). I never used cubes but have twice used chips and agree that they can seem one dimensional and can be overdone on a short time frame.

 

There is nothing intrinsically better about wood in a barrel than other wood when controlling for variables such as humidity, surface area, contact time...barrels are not "magical vessels" or "the holy grail", imho

 

Because Of the differences in a barrel being very slightly oxygen permeable, allowing a incredibly slight interaction of oxygen, wood
Cellulose and beer to have chemical reactions and change flavors and molecular composition.

That cannot and does not happen with a piece of wood being inserted into another vessel.

 

You're missing the point, it's not the "wood"
That is better, it is the chemical reactions occurring from what is taking place when very small Amounts of oxygen and very small
Amounts of brew are absorbed into the wood and interact with one another.

That interaction changes the flavor in ways just dumping pieces of wood into a fermentation vessel never could.

Why do you think that breweries, wineries and distilleries use barrels and not chips? Can you imagine the cost savings and the amount of space they could feee up?

It's because you cannot get the same chemical interactions to occur and thus you cannot get the "same" and more desireable flavors from pieces of wood soaked in these products.

Again, TONS of scientific data out there in barrels and aging/maturation of various products.

"Magic vessels" or "holy grail", not sure why you phrased it this way other than low level snark.

When I write that "that she is where the magic happens"
I'm not being literal, it's hyperbole to ram my point home that the chemical interactions occurring in the barrel create a different set of flavors and are vastly different from leaching tanins and wood cellulose from pieces of wood soaked in a liquid.

I'm merely pointing out the differences between the two practices so that folks can decide what's best for them. I've made literally hundreds of beers aged on cubes, spirals-et al; and they were great; but that doesn't make it the "same" as barrel aging nor did it ever make "the exact same" flavors.

I've also made hundreds of true barrel aged beers and they were all
superior and more desirable in the flavor and mouthfeel department versus cubes, chips, spirals, etc.

 

Because that is the way they have always done it...it makes sense on their scale. There is no magical process...wood is wood...oxygen is oxygen...your romantic notion of the virtues of "angels' share" and marketing forces has convinced you that barrels have to be better than the well-controlled use of the same constituents outside of a barrel, imho.

 

No magic, just science.

Use your Google fu.

I don't have time to post all the data on the chemistry of barrel maturation for you.

Most of the data has to do with spirits, but the same applies for beer and wine, just more compounds being changed in spirits due to the distillation process.

And, no barrels aren't easy; regardless of the scale dumping a bunch of wood pieces is MUCH simpler and less expensive than setting aside a section of your facility and having a barrel program.

Ever tried whiskey made by hack distillers who age on wood cubes and oxygenate with air pumps to mimick barrel chemistry? They do it to cut cost and save space and their products are low quality. Even after years and years of fine tuning it pales in comparison to barrel maturation.

Your idea that oxygen, wood and beer exist so any form of them together would yield the exact same results is inaccurate.

We can agree to disagree, but I implore anyone who is seriously interested in the science to do the research.

 

Please, don't misquote me...have a nice day

 

@CADETS3, I just got back from my LHBS (which is not very local) of Keystone Homebrew. They had a number of 5 gallon barrels on the floor:

• New Liberty Butcher Bourbon: $125 qty. 7
• Bluebird Rye Whiskey: $120 qty. 1
• Dark Rum: $120 qty. 3

I have no idea how much it would cost to ship these items.

Cheers!

 

I realize there's no substitute for true barrel aging, but I've been doing a lot of experimentation on how to get the best results with oak cubes in strong ales. I've tweaked the type, amount, length boiled, duration of contact etc... Right now I'm zeroing in on 0.3-0.4oz/gal oak cubes boiled shortly, then put in secondary for 6-8 months, adding spirits to taste separately.

My question for you is what techniques did you use in your most successful beers aged on oak cubes or spirals (i.e. quantity, soaked in spirits, boiled, contact time etc...)

Cheers!

 

Great thread! Now I'll have to do side by side barrel vs frankie sticks and compare. The madness continues.

 

But it is a good madness, right?

Cheers!

P.S. I have yet to brew with a barrel but I would expect that the finished beer will be heavily influenced by the quality of the barrel:

• How wet was the barrel when you acquired it?
• How tasty was the spirit (or wine) that the barrel previously contained?
• What amount of toast/char was the barrel?
• etc.?

Cheers!

 

The best madness I have experience thus far!

 

When using oak cubes- in my experience this method yields the best results:

1) Simmer cubes in water in a sauce pan (No need to cover cubes all the way with water) over medium/high heat for 15-20 minutes; stirring. Dump water out. This sufficiently removes the excess tannin.
2) Soak cubes in whiskey or other spirit for 10-14 days minimum. Adjust amount of spirit for the flavor/strength you are going for in the specific brew you are making.
3) Put into brew in secondary adding spirit and cubes.
4) Mess around with amount of cubes and the duration of contact time as this is palette dependent and also dependent on the specific style of beer you're making.
5) Taste often to know when it has reached your idea of what you want out of it flavor wise.

 

If someone is looking for barrels....Single Barrel Cellar sells used barrels. They currently have 10 gallon oak barrels available on their website. If you catch it right you can buy oak barrels that have aged their maple syrup too.