Oak

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Orca, Sep 24, 2023.

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  1. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I tried searching for the word “oak” in the Beer Talk forum and got no hits along the following explanation: “The search could not be completed because the search keywords were too short, too long, or too common.”

    Having just enjoyed an oak-aged saison, and having had countless beers over the years that were aged in oak barrels, on oak staves or chips, or otherwise using this ubiquitous hardwood, I still struggle to put my finger on the exact qualities it contributes to beer. In fact, I’d almost argue oak doesn’t as much add anything to beer as it takes something away—oak-aged beers have a “dry” quality, as if the oak has absorbed something from the beer and left behind more of its true essence. I think that’s the best way I can describe it.

    Googling “oak in beer” likewise yields disappointingly vague results:
    • “Oak aging isn’t just for wine. Brewers also use this wood-aging technique to give their beers smoothness and a unique flavour profile.”
    • “Oak is full of many flavorful and aromatic compounds and chemicals that, when added to beer, create another level of depth and complexity.”
    I know a lot of oak-aged beers have a certain quality that is considered desirable—but beyond that, what is it about oak, or other hardwoods, that brewers use it to achieve? Help me identify what we are talking about when we talk about an “oaky” beer.

    And to clarify, I’m not talking about beers aged in Bourbon, wine, or other pre-used barrels—I’m talking specifically about the wood itself.

    Cheers!
     
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  2. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,071) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think that dryness is from the imparting of tannins from the oak barrel.
     
  3. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    OK now we’re getting somewhere. What do tannins taste like? Or is it more of a texture thing?
     
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  4. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Personally, I don't agree at all. If a beer sits in an oak vessel, the oak contributes to the beer. Depending on the condition of the wood, it might not contribute much at all, or it might add a clear woody character. Perhaps you enjoy that character. I've learned to dislike it.
     
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  5. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Obviously that’s a matter of taste. I’m just pointing out that a lot of brewers use oak to achieve some kind of supposedly desirable qualities in the beer they’re making. I’ve had oak-aged stouts that had that dry quality, not totally unlike an oatmeal stout. I’m just trying to better understand and identify what it is about the use of oak (or other hardwoods) in beer people find agreeable.
     
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  6. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I want to add - It often bugs me that BA doesn't let people search for 3 letter words.

    As a hypothetical example, if someone is searching a particular thread for a post about wet hopped beers, they should be able to successfully search for "wet" in that thread.

    @Todd

    If you thought about the process as adding something rather than taking something away, I think you'll get much closer to that understanding though.
     
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  7. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Clearly that’s because “fresh hop” is the correct term.
     
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  8. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    It's hard to give a definitinve answer to that question.
    Overall, as someone above mentioned, oak will add tannins to a beer |(or wine...) that's aged in it. Tannins are not as much a flavor thing as a texture, more so dryness to it.
    Depending on the nature of the wood, it can add some flavor as well, it often comes out as a sort of vanilla-y flavor and aroma, though not exactly like it.
    Part of that will depend on if it's fresh oak, or toasted, and how toasted it is. heavy toast will give a much different flavor and aroma than untoasted.
    It also has to do with the base beer. My un-scientific experience says that different styles will have different reactions to aging in general, and different reactions with the oak.
     
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  10. Giantspace

    Giantspace Grand Pooh-Bah (3,043) Dec 22, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Oak Stand is one of my favorite beers. I like beer that sits on oak. Shackamaxamum uses oak spirals I believe and after a bunch of years it gets going really nice.

    Enjoy
     
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  11. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Changing the minimum word length to 3 letters would require an extensive stopword (ignore) list so we're not indexing a ton of noise, greatly increase our database footprint / the size of our search indexes, and require a complete rebuild of our search indexes. In the site's current state, there'd no doubt be a noticeable impact to performance too. Not sure it's worth it right now, but definitely down the road as part of a larger upgrade.
     
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  12. LesDewitt4beer

    LesDewitt4beer Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,315) Jan 25, 2021 Minnesota
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I believe White Oak is the most commonly used of Quercus for barrels and or foders. The taste and aroma of oak differs from tree to tree. They're not clones like corn plants and each individual tree has nutritional needs which it may or may not get. Lots of variables: fragrant, green, earthy, nutty, and sometimes previously used oak barrel staves can impart a teak type of flavor (kind of peppery) etc and it's up to the brewer to decide what gives. For me, I prefer a little less tannin overall in any wood-aged beer. They become too dry and are sometimes a wee bit sour.
     
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  13. jonphisher

    jonphisher Grand Pooh-Bah (3,850) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Oak for me 100% adds a distinct flavor and feel to it for me. We have a brewery near by that has quite a few oak aged lagers, they do them a few times a year.

    It is weird cause I feel like I notice it more in feel but flavor wise I tend to notice it too, dried out sawdust that is tad spice like and a tad vanilla like, is how I would describe it; though I’d probably just say oak like. Then again it also probably depends on the condition of the oak, the beer, and lots of other things. I guess depending on the beer those notes may not even be noticeable at all. Most of my experience with oak is from those pale lagers I mentioned above.

    Doing a side by side with jai lai and oak aged jai lai years ago, I’ve never not recognized oak since the.
     
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  14. LeRose

    LeRose Grand Pooh-Bah (4,423) Nov 24, 2011 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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  15. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    As @JrGtr alluded to, oak typically imparts a vanilla or butterscotch flavor. But keep in mind that the more uses a barrel sees, the less of that flavor you're going to get. Also, there are a number of different types of oak that are used for barrels, with American and French being the most common. French oak tends to be a harder, denser type of oak wood, and so doesn't impart as much oak flavor as American oak. Which depending on what you're going for, may or may not be a good thing.

    As for tannins, at least in wine, the tannins are typically derived from the skins, seeds and stems. Aging in oak barrels tends to soften those tannins, but also imparts additional tannins.
     
    #15 John_M, Sep 24, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2023
  16. LesDewitt4beer

    LesDewitt4beer Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,315) Jan 25, 2021 Minnesota
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  17. BruChef

    BruChef Maven (1,277) Nov 8, 2009 New York
    Society

    Tastes like over steeped black tea. It can leave a bitter, drying, puckering sensation on the tongue and in the mouth.
     
  18. micada

    micada Grand Pooh-Bah (3,960) Jul 13, 2015 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    They taste like…oak. :grin:
     
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  19. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I like the tea comparison but I can’t say I’ve had such an intense reaction to a wood-aged beer. There’s a certain dryness, but nothing to the extent that I’d describe as “puckering.” Now wild and sour ales yes—and those are often aged in wood barrels or foeders—but my understanding is that that dry quality comes from the yeast used at least as much as from the wood.
     
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  20. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I know you’re being a little cheeky, but that is literally true, that you’d get a similar taste/feel by sticking a small block of wood in your mouth. What I’m trying to nail down is what that taste/feel is like relative to something more familiar (i.e., food). Others have used words like “peppery” and “tea,” which seem apt—these are also plant-based edible products, though aside from water and yeast everything that goes into beer is usually plant-based. I might also compare the taste/feel of oak in beer to the smell of sawdust or freshly cut wood, but that doesn’t seem to get to the heart of it for me either.
     
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