Off Color on our first IPA?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by janky, Feb 1, 2014.

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  1. janky

    janky Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2013 Washington

    So I'm brand new to homebrewing (well, first attempt -- I've been researching quite a while). We brewed up a Simtra-style IPA, and all in all it turned out pretty good.

    But the color is way off.
    It looks more like somewhere between an amber or a brown ale.
    It was also nearly black in the secondary.

    We did an extract brew with briess light LME, which I was told may be a factor in the darker color. We also used 1 tsp Irish Moss because we were told it helps with clarity/coloration.


    What could make an IPA turn out dark?

    Here's a pic, but I took it outside, so in that light it almost looks acceptable... in person it's much more of a brown ale look.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Partial Boils (topping off with water at the end) result in darker color, due to more maillard reactions in the denser boiled wort. So does using LME, particularly if it's older. High pH can cause it too.
     
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  3. janky

    janky Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2013 Washington

    Thanks.
    I think we did a full boil on this one and just ran it through the wort chiller and waited after.

    Would it be a better option to go with the powdery DME next time and just forget about using LME?

    I'm not sure what our PH was honestly. We used distilled water from the store. I will definitely check that next time we brew this.

    Also, does the Irish Moss actually do anything to help here, or is that more for clarity/avoiding turbidity?
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    So it wasn't due to a partial boil...

    Yes, generally it would be better both for color and for flavor.

    Distilled water plus extracts wouldn't result in a high pH. So it wouldn't have been that.

    Irish moss is for clarity. Doesn't really impact color much.
     
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  5. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    Did you add the LME at the start of the boil, or add some, and then most of it later in the boil?

    I suspect you added it early, it could have been older, and it probably scorched in your pot, despite the full boil.
     
  6. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    I like DME better for a couple of reasons: t's easier to measure and it stays fresh longer.

    DME won't in itself give you a lighter colored beer. But one "trick" you can do to lighten the color is withhold some of the extract until the final 10 minutes of the boil. It's been a while since I've brewed with extract, but I think I used hold off about 1/3rd of the total extract until the final ten minutes.

    Unfortunately, there's only so much you can do with extract as far as color goes, and most extract beers are a bit on the dark side. It's one reason people switch to all grain, which gives you pretty exact control over color.
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It can when compared to stale LME. Which doesn't sound like a fair comparison, but LME does stale much faster.
     
  8. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Fermenting wort always looks darker in 2ndary.
    Something to do with Beer's Law. No really...it does. You can look it up.
    Two things:
    1) Fuggetabout Irish moss with extracts. Using it with extracts is, with good reason, thought to have an adverse effect on head retention.
    2) Try adding 1/3 LME/DME at the beginning of boil and the remaining 2/3 at 15".
    This should produce a lighter color wort than adding 100% of the extract at the beginning of boil.
    Adding all of the malt extract at the beginning of the boil and / or scorching.

    Make sure the heat is off when adding the extract.
    Resume heating after the extract has been well-mixed.
    Doesn't look too dark for an IPA to me. Looks like a brew with an SMR from Crystal 60.
     
  9. janky

    janky Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2013 Washington

    Awesome, thanks for all the replies. I appreciate it!
    We added the LME early in the boil, so yeah... we definitely scorched it (didn't reduce heat or anything either, just stirred it in, and gave it the occasional stir).

    Going forward I'll use the DME, and save 1/3 until the last 10 min or so of the boil. Prob skip the Irish Moss as well until we get a bit more comfortable and switch over to AG.

    Thanks again, guys.
     
  10. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    Make that 2/3
     
  11. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    You never told us how it tasted. That's what really counts, in my book. It looks like a fine beer to me.
    I use only DME and add it at 10 minutes before the end of the boil. AND I stir extremely vigorously while adding it. I found that adding a couple pounds of Maris Otter (or other British) Pale malt lightens the beer and allows me to use less DME, and it gives it maltier backbone.

    One other thing... it still looks cloudy even though you used a clarifier. Did you lager it for at least a few weeks in a cold place? That helps a lot. My guess is it wasn't as long or as cold as you should get it, resulting in a higher haze factor due to the protein still in suspension.
     
  12. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Old LME oxidizes and darkens. Was it light or brownish coming out of the container?

    I got some old LME as a bargain, it tasted stale, was brown, and was used for starters.
     
  13. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    What he said...
    Unless you're entering into a competition, it's not really important if the beer is a few shades lighter or darker than it "should" be, as long as it tastes fine and everything else is as it should be.
    IMO, YMMV.
     
  14. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Just to be clear, did you just use the LME or did you also steep some grains? What was your recipe?
     
  15. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Once more from the top...
    1/3 DME/LME at the beginning of the boil.
    2/3 DME/LME ~15" before the end of the boil.

    One-third...two-thirds
    One-third...two-thirds
    Ohm.
     
  16. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    When I use liquid extract, I add it in various small portions throughout the boil, making sure it all gets boiled for at least a few minutes. It doesn't need to all go in at once tho. I basically do the same thing with dry, but use fewer portions. Adding malt extract this way won't hurt your beer, and might reduce malliard reactions* a little. If you're not getting a real good rolling boil, this might also prevent scorching that might otherwise occur. Strong boils prevent scorching by keeping the wort circulating.

    However, try to keep the big picture in mind. How's the flavor and aroma? Any obvious flaws? Off-flavors? If your beer is in the tasty beer category, and it's your first batch of anything, then color is almost a moot point. Homebrewers can't control every parameter the way craft breweries do. All of our beers tend to be a bit darker, which is not to be equated with "bad." Work on clear/light color in beers later. Those are relatively small points in the big picture.

    *generally I haven't found malliard reactions to be a big issue. Even when I've tried to intentionally increase malliard reactions with a long boil (and partially boiling some of the wort even longer), malliard reactions haven't been that big of a deal (read: they were barely noticeable).
     
  17. firstthenlast

    firstthenlast Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2013 Massachusetts

    That color is a bit dark but definately could pass as an IPA
     
  18. shredder83

    shredder83 Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois

    For my first brew (partial extract)two weeks ago, I did this same thing and waited until 20 minutes left to add the last 1/3 of my extra light dme for my apa and it actually turned out lighter than I anticipated. This is solid advice for extract brewing.
     
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  19. janky

    janky Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2013 Washington

    So the aroma was great, nice and strong hop and citrus-ey presence there. It tasted good for our first attempt at brewing, and the people we shared it with all seemed to enjoy it. Obviously I'm overly-critical because I want to really perfect it.

    The taste was missing something to me, even though everyone else told me it was good. I feel like the malt aspect (almost a bready or wheaty finish) was more present than the simcoe or citra hops, which bugged me a bit.

    The local homebrew shop said that the strain of yeast I used (Dry English Ale Yeast, WLP007) tends to hide hops - so going forward I may want to consider a California/West Coast yeast that's going to allow the hops to shine through more.

    We made a "Simtra" IPA. Steeped some grains in a muslin bag for a while, and dumped all the (apparently older, brown) LME in at the start of the boil. I'm guessing that's where the off color came from.
    Clarity is also a bit off, and there are definitely "floaties" (proteins?) in the bottles. We will need to figure out a good way to filter that junk out going forward.

    Overall, I'm happy with it. Hell, I'm happy it came out beer and not infected piss water lol... but I am a perfectionist, and I will end up picking it apart until it's as perfect as I can get it. I really do appreciate the insight.
     
  20. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I'll repeat what I asked above. What was your recipe? The hops could have been hidden by the yeast or it could have been old LME or it could have been the grains you steeped. The color is likely because you steeped something that adds color (duh :slight_smile: ) but we can't say anything more than that without knowing exactly what you did.

    BTW, saying "Simtra" IPA is likely meaningless to a lot of people here. I had to google to find that it is a beer made by a brewery I have never heard of.
     
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