Off Flavor in IPAs

From the link:

“Far too often people are encountering diacetyl in beers made today. Many times, diacetyl is found in beers that should stylistically have zero: pale ales, India pale ales, and double IPAs. This style of beer, typically fermented with a clean profile yeast strain, should have no diacetyl present, and yet more and more cases are being found with a plethora of diacetyl. One untested theory of the source of excess diacetyl is the relationship between the fermentation and the addition of hops after fermentation begins. What is the interaction between added hops and krausen? Are hops helping with the transition from acetolactate to diacetyl? Using controlled fermentations and gas chromatography, we can make some determinations about when diacetyl is forming and suggest how it can be prevented in dry-hopped beers.”

Do you add dry hops before fermentation is complete (i.e., is there still krausen present)?

Cheers!

Edit: Maybe @OldSock has some insight here? And @Peter_Wolfe?

 

I haven't added when the krausen was still present. The earliest I've added is after four days and the latest is directly in the keg.

 

And you noticed diacetyl in that batch?

Cheers!

 

Yes but it may matter that I dry hopped around 60F. My main goal was to try to minimize oxygen but maybe if I dry hopped into a cold keg I'd minimize the formation of diacetyl.

I have brewed 1 gallon batches of IPA's with no issues, dry hop and all. In that case I'm fermenting in glass jugs rather than buckets.

 

Not that I am aware of. I have never read or heard that dry hopping at that temperature will form diacetyl.

Hopefully Mike (@OldSock) or Peter (@Peter_Wolfe) will respond with their insight.

Cheers!

 

I can see oxidized or old hops maybe... I did use some hops that aren't as common and my LHBS repackaged some of them. I will brew again this Sat and use hops that are straight from Hopunion, and I'll be extra careful about any added oxygen getting in (could dropping the hops in and having them sort of SPLASH in my glass carboy possibly add oxygen??)

I got a new Sanitary stainless steel siphon as well that will calm my paranoia of anything living in my year old plastic autosiphon.

I'm not giving up until I find a fix.

 

That's crazy. I was literally going to post about this recently. I've had the same issue with diacetyl in my clean hoppy pales and ipa's but could not figure out why it was happening. I'd get super excited tasting them at bottling but after they carbed I got the diacetyl. I was chalking it up to not allowing enough time in fermentation, but even after allowing 3 weeks I'd get that flavor/aroma when popping the first bottle. Next batch I'll have to make sure I use only unopened hops for dry hopping and see if that helps?

 

I had this issue once before with Wyeast Forbidden Fruit, where there was no diacetyl at bottling, then it appeared when I opened the first bottle. The diacetyl went away within a week though. I just chalked it up to the slight re-fermentation that occurred during carbonation, then the yeast cleaned up after themselves again. This beer didn't receive any dryhops by the way.

 

My palate may be off or something but to me it doesn't taste like Diacetyl, or its a weird form of it mixed with hops that I just don't understand ooor I've never really tasted Diacetyl so I don't know.. I plan to purchase a beer off flavor kit so I can be more sure when discovering off flavors in beer.

 

Same here. My standard dry hopping regime is fermentation temperature with yeast activity and then again in the keg, I've never had a problem with diacetyl (I'd know, my wife is hyper sensitive to, and loves diacetyl).

 

i recently made an IPA with pale malt, honey malt and carapils fermented with probably 3rd or 4th generation London Ale III. mashed at 153f and finished at 1.007. too dry in my opinion for the yeast but ive noticed it attenuating more and more each time I use it. But this last batch of IPA it had a flavor of the water after you rince out some rice. lol. has anyone had this flavor before? maybe im crushing the grains too fine.

 

It sounds like you may have a zinc deficiency...

 

Zinc deficiency? That's the first I've heard that... what would that cause?

 

OK...hoppy beers are the easiest beers to make that usually taste great...this guy has either lost his hoppy mojo...or he's lost his ability to taste a good hoppy brew...zinc deficiency...no doubt...

 

or..he could just be typing what his GF tells him to...

 

Chalk me up to having the same off flavors as the OP, and many others, have described. It's not diacetyl; it's definitely along the lines of chlorophenol which was described in a BYO article I recently read about off-flavors in beer.

I've brewed 50 batches - 47 at my old house and 3 at my new house. My new house is on a different water system. I have my routine down except my water source changes. The first 47 were either a combination of distilled and/or spring water from the grocery store or carbon-filtered water from my frig. I have never had these flavors in the first 47 (stouts, IPAs, pale ales, ambers, etc.). The last three however have all had it - clones of Stone Levitation, Ballast Point Sculpin, and Bell's Two Hearted (all hoppy as it turns out, similar to others) - and all three have been carbon-filtered frig water from a new source due to my recent move.

After #48, I thought it was infection so I cleaned extra well. After I got it again in #49, I replaced all of my hoses, took all of my fittings off my kettle and cleaned them, replaced my site tube. After #50, I was about to give up brewing. The beer tasted great going into the fermenter but coming out of the keg, not so much. I was wondering if it could be the CO2 going bad or forcing off flavors into the beer. My main guess is the change in water source though. I plan to brew soon with store-bought bottled water to eliminate one of the variables. I hope to report some good news in the coming weeks.

 

Do you live in Flint, Michigan? Sorry....I just had to.

 

How much gypsum do you add when you brew IPAs?

 

47 gems to 3 bad it's gotta be water. Use distilled again and find out. Might even want to use distilled for your sanitizer. Also test your water. It's fairly inexpensive. Wards laboratories does a brewing water for 30 or 40 bucks

 

I assume this was asked to me since I resurrected this thread... zero. I've never changed my water profile.