Off The Topper

Those hopshots are absolutely disgusting! I'd replace each with an ounce of Magnum unless you like vegetal flavors.

 

Doesn't really look like Heady in the photo. I would like to get a vial of that Vermont Ale yeast sometime and try my own clone recipe though.

 

That's an interesting opinion considering most people believe that, since hop extract is made by separating hop oils and alpha acids from the vegetative matter of the hops, that using it allows you to achieve bitterness while reducing vegetal flavors in your beer. Can you elaborate a bit more on your experience please?

 

Very unique recipe. I'd like to try my hand at this

 

Used the same hopshots from Northern Brewer in the Pliny clone kit. The hopshots stood out like a sore thumb from the beginning...the bitterness tasted like it was a little artificial to an extent and the flavor was over the top vegetal. I've used all of the hops in the kit multiple times and somewhat familiar with their characteristics, so I felt that the only explanation was the hopshots...checked other reviews of hopshots online afterwards and found others with the same experience.

 

Not sure about the kit, but would like to try the vermont ale yeast in my own house ipa. I've used the hop shots a bunch and they are great, never got any of the vegetal flavors others have described. You could use too much of them I guess and maybe get those results but I have yet to experience that.

 

Seems you have to buy one of the kits to get the yeast, can't find it on the NB site.

 

@JackHorzempa...Jack, could it be? DrMindbender, I was just chatting with Jack about Vinnie at Russian River's well know extended dry hopping schedule and he was inquiring whether there are any studies to show "vegetal" qualities of beer left on dry hops for "too long" a period. Personally I haven't had experience with it, but maybe i'm just not sensitive to such a characteristic.

 

http://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/vermont-ale
You can order it here!

 

Dave, maybe @FATC1TY will chime into this discussion. He has used hop extract in his homebrewing.

I have zero experience with hop extract.

Cheers!

 

Check out Yeast Bay, they have the same yeast, and it works well.

That, or give me a week, and I'll be happy to pull you some slurry from two fermenters I have with it and leave it at Just Brew It, or meet you somewhere inbetween.

 

As for the extract.. It taste terrible if you taste it outside of the wort.

I don't have any experience with the pre-filled stuff from NB, but I've bought the cans of it fresh, and filled my own 10mL syringes and keep them in the fridge sealed up.

They hold up extremely well, are easy to dose and measure out a bittering charge, and I find them to be MUCH better than using pellet or leaf hops to bitter.

I lose less wort as well, which is a huge plus in some cases.

The biggest plus, ironically, is that it removed the vegetal and astringent note I've found in boiling large amount of hops for long periods of time. It's pretty hard to get any leafy notes when there is no leaf. Not saying some people perceive it different, but I've had Pliny, and I've had Heady, and I've had Sucks... all of those use extract to bitter the beers. Hop bomb beers, all different ways to skin the cat, and all are world class, IMO.

I've brewed with nothing but extract to bitter, a small flameout addition, and then some dry hopping. Cleanest tasting hoppy beer I've ever done and was sold on it. I think that the astringent vegetative notes will come from older hops, IMO, more so than the fresher ones.

When I'm going north of 5-6 ounces of hops in the boil, I figure in using some extract. Some people have reported issues with cleaning their kettles of the sticky resin from the hopshots, but I get a pretty aggressive boil, warm the extract well, and add it in portions on my kettle spoon, and have no issues with it separating.

 

Thanks for elaborating. I certainly can't refute your opinion or the opinions of the "other reviews of hopshots" you saw online with my own opinion. So please don't feel as if I'm trying to by giving my opinion. That being said, my experience has been the same as @FATC1TY all positive. Very clean bitterness imho. I've even made a delicious kolsch where hop extract was the only hops added and, as I'm sure you know, a kolsch is quite a "naked" style that hides nothing. It should be said that I, like @FATC1TY didn't use the northern brewer "hopshot" but rather than I made my own from a can of co2 extract that I purchased from a different online vendor. I have my suspicions though that northern brewer is using the same extract.

@DrMindbender may I ask if you have made other beers with a hop bill as large as PTE before and if you've ever had the real PTE? If you've had the real PTE, did you feel that it too had the same negative quality that you feel you could clearly identify as being due to hop extract? If you haven't had the real PTE, have you had any beers (homebrew or retail) with such high ibu's before? The calculated ibu's on the real recipe are roughly 250 so, if you haven't made a beer that bitter before, perhaps that could be factoring into your reaction? Other factors I could possibly think of that might have played a role in your experience could have been pH and/or the age of the regular hops that went into the recipe.

P.S. I checked the reviews on Northern Brewer for "hopshot" and they are all glowing reviews. I'd be interested in reading the ones you found suggesting the product produced a terrible bittering quality. Would you happen to recall where you came across them?

Respectfully,
Dennis

 

That would be great, love to try it. Just when ever you're going to be by Just Brew it again, drop it off and shoot me a message. I have an open fermenter and an ipa is up next!!

 

I have brewed plenty of over the top hop recipes before and have had plenty of Pliny in the past. The kit tasted nothing like the real thing...instead of the wonderful blend of hop flavors and aromas in the actual Pliny, the hops didn't fuse together quiet the same way. I wasn't the only one that picked this vegetal flavor out, my wife tasted it too. I followed the recipe to a T, then kegged it and drank it fresh. It began to mellow a little with age on the keg, but it never lost that flavor. I bottled the last 6 beers off the keg and had one earlier this week...the vegetable flavor was much less noticeable and the beer had finally mellowed to a close enough flavor that you could tell it was trying to be a Pliny knonk off. Didn't do a thorough search but I cant find the reviews I was talking about either...when I find them I'll post a reply. But you're right Koopa, most reviews I'm seeing now are in favor of it. Guess I'm an outlier.

 

@Fatcity and @koopa, where are you buying your bulk hop extracts? TIA!

 

http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/product_p/extractco2cans.htm

I organized a group buy with my homebrew club, picked up 3 cans, picked up a box of 100 needlle-less plastic syringes with screw on tips from ebay, and yielded 89x 5ml hopshots @ $1.35 each including all shipping costs.

Here is a (fairly seedy looking) image of one I made.....



I basically cracked a can open with a can opener, created a make shift double boiler by putting the can into a smaller pot of water and placing that pot into a larger pot of water, heated them up for 10-15 minutes, stirred, filled syringes / capped one at a time, then stored them in zip lock freezer bags in the freezer inside a plastic tin to keep them dark. As per hop union, they should keep for 3-4 years easily.

Here is a similar tutorial on preparing them that I found on youtube....

 

Thanks again for your feedback. Glad to hear you've had the real deal PTE and I just noticed you gave it a 4.75 out of 5 score. So it's fair to say that the hop extract in the real deal PTE isn't objectionable to you. Also hearing that the objectionable flavor is now finally fading in your homebrew makes me wonder if it was simply hop pellet astringency the whole time? Either way it's been a fun discussion and I appreciate you taking part in it!

 

I have the same Co2 extract from YVH, as @FATC1TY and @koopa, and have also noticed no vegetal flavors in the finished beers. A very straightforward and clean bitterness, but no vegetal flavors.

@VikeMan, to offer another way of lowering the viscosity of the extract when moving to syringes, I placed the canister in a bit of water inside a crock-pot, turned to low. Worked like a charm, and I think it made it easier to be able to leave it in the crock-pot, on heat, while filling.