Oil causing head retention issues?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by GetMeAnIPA, Jun 14, 2016.

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  1. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    i brewed a porter that I added 4 ozs of 100% cacao powder during the last 10 min of the boil. I then cold brewed a light roast that I boiled and added to the bottling bucket. I've brewed this beer before with 3 ozs of powder from a different brand without any head retention issues. I was looking at the beer yesterday and noticed some oil sitting on top of the beer, see below:

    I boiled the cold brew for sanitary purposes, which may have been unnecessary. First time adding cold brew so I wanted to be on the safe side.

    Is the oil causing the head retention issues and do you guys think it was from boiling the cold brew?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,276) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You may have answered your own question. Both cocoa powder and coffee add oils that can hurt head retention, so that seems like the logical conclusion. Is that the be-all and end-all? I couldn't say without actually being there and having seen everything, but I will say that there's usually enough head retention left to fight the oils... but if you see an oil slick that's not a good sign. On the up side, many commercial brews that utilize said items also suffer, so it's not that bad, and as long as it tastes good that's what really counts.
     
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  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It sure sounds/appears to be an oil issue.

    Lack of foam does have a negative consequence from an appearance perspective but the aspect that would personally bother me more is that lack of foam will impact the overall drinking experience since foam delivers and releases the aromatic compounds of the beer.

    Cheers!
     
  4. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Sure, see it many times in my brews containing, coconut, nibs, coffee and other ingrediants that have oil/fats.
    Personally, I love the taste of these beers and don't care if there is a big head or not, however, one time I did add 1 lb carapills and a half lb of flaked barley to a coco nib coconut coffee stout , then added 6 oz of bottleing suger to 5 gall. There was some head fer sure!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  5. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    That's interesting that using two different products produces wildly differing results. Do these products have nutrition labeling that lists fats/oils that could tell the reason for the difference? we could all learn from this if you can identify those label numbers and/or the products.
     
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  6. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    @Mothergoose03 mostly I and a run and gun brewer. I do keep notes and weight ingrediants , but im not going to bullshit you that I have a big ass degree, I don,t. just try new combos of ingrediants and sometimes they work well. Never worry about IBUs, ABVs, SMRs or all that other stuff. Im a makin beer for drinkin an I gots folks a waitin on me. on to the spruce
     
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  7. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Both cocoa powders do have the labeling and both had very little fat because they were cocoa powder. I will have to double check on that. My suspicion is the oil is coming from the coffee.
     
  8. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Oops, I completely missed the coffee part of your initial post. Thanks for the comeback.
     
  9. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    The beer is good so at the end of the day I am ok with it. I have another beer I want to add coffee but instead of cold brew I am going to add beans to the secondary. I've previously read a post from you meaning adding beans to the keg???? If so how much and for long? I bought some medium roast beans from whole foods, their mocha something.....
     
  10. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    I personally havent had any issues with head retention from coffee, but I put whole beans after fermentation in primary. Doubt eh boiling would effect the amount of oils. Is the beer fully carbed? Keg or bottle?
     
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  11. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,236) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    I'd check the ingredients on your cacao powder, but I suspect it's the coffee as well. I have another question though. Why did you boil cold brewed coffee. That is destroying the point of it being brewed cold and you are losing flavor.
     
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  12. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Bottled. It's been a few weeks if not a month. When I pour the beer it has head but after the first 2 sips it's gone. The bubbles are large and not tight and foamy.
     
  13. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Boiled it for sanitation. I was under the impression that hot water in contact with the beans would extract the more acidic/roasty flavor and boiling the finish product wouldn't effect that. I wasn't going to boil it initially but I used too small of a vessel to make the cold brew and when I pulled the bag Out I touched all kinds of stuff and grounds were left behind. I thought if I boil it I can filter it and sanitize.

    I believe you are correct on the loss of flavor. The cold brew was tasty and strong but after boiling it, it lost flavor, so much that it's very subtle in the finished beer.

    Going forward I wouldn't do this process again.
     
  14. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for your input. I think you make a valid point though and the reason why I added it. I used slightly more cocoa powder and a different product so that could be it. However, I would lean toward the coffee. I have no evidence but I am thinking by boiling the coffee it released the oils.
     
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  15. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    did you boil the coffee beans or the cold brew sans beans?
     
  16. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Initially I sanitized all the stuff I could such as grinder, but there was so much grounds still in there, container etc. then made the cold brew by using course ground beans and cold water steeping for 48 hours. I took the cold brew and boiled it.
     
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  17. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    hmmmm... I dont have experience with this. breweries do add cold brew coffee to their beer, but idk of any that boil it. I would find out what they do for the next batch.
     
  18. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Next batch I am just going to toss the beans in. Forget the hassle of making cold brew. If that turns out well I'll stick to that process.
     
  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Cocoa powder has some fat, but nowhere near as much fat as (say) cocoa nibs. Coffee (no matter how added) can be pretty dang oily though, in my experience.
     
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  20. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I just checked and the powder says 99% fat free. The beans I used must have been really oily.
     
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
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