Oktoberfest Ale

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by selimoidar, Oct 24, 2013.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. selimoidar

    selimoidar Aspirant (260) Feb 21, 2013 District of Columbia

    I recently brewed a batch of Oktoberfest. I know that this is traditionally a lager, but I brewed mine as an ale. Unfortunately I do not currently have the equipment to lager beer. I used the Brewers Best kit, and brewed it as an ale.

    I let it ferment initially for about 5 weeks (maybe 4), bottled it for 2 before opening one to try.

    My initial thoughts are that the taste is..soapy for lack of a better descriptor. My wife described it simply as bland, but either way it is either under developed or something isn't quite right.

    The bottles are carbonated, so I know the yeast is alive and well.

    This is only my second batched brewed. My first was a summer ale. Is this likely just a matter of the beer being too young?
     
    #1 selimoidar, Oct 24, 2013
  2. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Can you post the recipe? Was the ale yeast included in the kit, or that was your adaptation? Did the brew process go as normal, i.e. a 5-gallon recipe produced 5 gallons of wort, no boil-overs, etc?
     
    #2 PapaGoose03, Oct 24, 2013
  3. selimoidar

    selimoidar Aspirant (260) Feb 21, 2013 District of Columbia

    All ingredients were from the kit, yeast included. The brew process also went perectly with no boil-overs. End result was 5 gallons of wort.

    I can post the recipe later on, but it was this year's Brewers Best Oktoberfest kit.
     
    #3 selimoidar, Oct 24, 2013
  4. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    #4 Eriktheipaman, Oct 24, 2013
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Soapy flavors can result from the breakdown of fatty acids in the trub. The result then tastes soapy, because it's actually soap. Factors that would favor this include a lot of trub and/or a lot of time spent with the trub. Did you by any chance dump everything from the kettle into the fermenter (no straining or racking)?
     
    #5 VikeMan, Oct 24, 2013
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Below is what is stated in John Palmer’s book How to Brew:

    “Soapy flavors can caused by not washing your glass very well, but they can also be produced by the fermentation conditions. If you leave the beer in the primary fermentor for a relatively long period of time after primary fermentation is over ("long" depends on the style and other fermentation factors), soapy flavors can result from the breakdown of fatty acids in the trub. Soap is, by definition, the salt of a fatty acid; so you are literally tasting soap.”

    You stated: “I let it ferment initially for about 5 weeks (maybe 4),” Is there a reason why you left the beer in the primary fermenter for 4-5 weeks?

    Cheers!
     
    #6 JackHorzempa, Oct 24, 2013
  7. selimoidar

    selimoidar Aspirant (260) Feb 21, 2013 District of Columbia

    There is a reason I left it in. On the direction sheet, it had tips for brewing as an ale:

    Brewed As An Ale
    Brewer’s Best® recommends lagering this
    recipe to achieve the true lager character of
    this beer style. However, if you are not properly
    equipped to lager your beer, the included
    yeast will perform well when fermented as an
    ale. When fermenting as an ale (between 64º
    - 72ºF) try to keep the beer on the cooler end
    of the temperature range and allow for some
    additional time for the lager yeast to ferment
    down to the FG. If possible, rack to a secondary
    fermenter for two weeks prior to bottling.
    Consult your local homebrew shop to learn
    more about the equipment necessary to lager
    your beers. Although this method is not
    as accurate as temperature-controlled lagering
    equipment, most climates provide a seasonal
    window that will allow you to lager beer.

    I did not, however rack to a secondary fermenter. But the point about the soap is well taken. I have only opened one bottle thus far.

    Perhaps I will try to open two separate bottles this coming weekend and compare, and see if the additional time has made any difference.
     
    #7 selimoidar, Oct 24, 2013
  8. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I can't tell from the way this is worded if they are saying that the yeast is a lager yeast but is pitched to brew the beer at ale temps (thus the hint to stay at the lower portion of the range), or if it is actually an ale yeast. In red they refer to a lager yeast, but you said that you brewed this beer as an ale. So you must have meant "as an ale" by meaning only the ale temp that was present during fermentation?
     
    #8 PapaGoose03, Oct 24, 2013
  9. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    Apparently, the kit comes with lager yeast. Probably dry lager yeast.

    Now, whether fermenting a beer with dry lager yeast at ale temperatures would produce a soapy taste is a question I'm not prepared to answer. Partly because it's something I wouldn't want to try.
     
    #9 MLucky, Oct 24, 2013
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'd expect a lot of esters. But I can't think of a reason this would produce a soapy flavor.

    OP: Did all of the kettle trub go into the fermenter?
     
    #10 VikeMan, Oct 24, 2013
  11. jwolf99

    jwolf99 Aspirant (229) Feb 20, 2012 New York

    I made this same kit at the end of the summer but used kolsch yeast (White Labs WLP029). The yeast that came with the kit, which I saved, is Brewferm lager (http://www.brewferm.be/en/). I kept it in primary for 2 weeks and secondary for 10 days. It fermented down to 1.018 which left just enough residual sweetness. Bottle conditioned for 4 weeks.

    It came out much better than I had expected. I put out a case of it at an Oktoberfest BBQ that I held and it was all gone. All positive comments from those who drank it. For the minimal cost the kolsch yeast, it was definitely the right decision to ward off any chance of off flavors from a lager yeast fermenting at such a high temp (70 deg F in my case).
     
    #11 jwolf99, Oct 25, 2013
  12. coreytowner

    coreytowner Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2013 New Jersey

    #12 coreytowner, Oct 25, 2013
  13. selimoidar

    selimoidar Aspirant (260) Feb 21, 2013 District of Columbia

    **Oktoberfest Update**

    I cracked open another bottle yesterday. The soapy taste has dissipated. Either the batch is developing as it continues to age in the bottles, or that first bottle I opened had simply been contaminated somehow, which seems perhaps more likely.

    I will continue to let the batch sit a while longer, as the last bottle also tasted a little stronger, and far deeper in flavor. This continues to be a very interesting experimental batch. I will continue to update, but I think we're out of the woods on this one.
     
    #13 selimoidar, Nov 4, 2013
  14. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    I've had beer sit for more than 4 weeks on the yeast/trub and never had some off flavors.

    Infact, I just kegged my house IPA that I brewed in mid/late August, and FINALLY moved it last week to the keg from the primary.

    Sat in my fermentation freezer at 39 once it was done fermenting though.
     
    #14 FATC1TY, Nov 4, 2013
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.