Old IPAs

A shitload of Goldings is a thing of great beauty.

 

I have no problem doing this. I even disagree with those that say Sucks dies after 2 months, I recently had it at 5 months and it tasted great. Your mind can make you believe whatever you let it, and a lot of people have let their minds tell them only fresh tastes good anymore and it's just not true.

 

A random thought - and I'm no brewer so this may be crazy talk - but conceivably something could diminish and still shine more if other things diminish / change even more. Or if we think of "shine" as meaning "come into their own" rather than simply meaning "being strongly present" the loss of some hop flavors might make others more apparent.

Personally, I've had the experience with Enjoy By of the grapefruit & citrus elements fading with time to reveal more of the dank oniony, catty, marijuana flavors. Maybe those elements were always present, but were masked or better integrated. I tend to dislike those flavors but someone that finds them appealing may say that the hops began to "shine".

 

People just have different taste buds. Sucks for me tastes like an undesirable malt bomb after 2 months. But beers from Sixpoint taste absolutely fine 3 or 4 months in.

Some hoppy beers fall off quicker than others; it's an objective fact. Sucks had to travel across the country to get here and it was already a month old when it arrived. I'm sure poor storage contributed to the disappointing taste too.

I've had Sucks fresh and the difference is extremely noticeable to me.

 

Its ironic that IPA was developed because of its keeping qualities

 

“John Kimmich from Alchemist has said that properly stored, his beer is excellent even a year after it was canned.”

Mark, two points worth emphasizing:

· “properly stored” means continually stored at refrigerator (e.g., 40 degrees F) temperatures. My local beer store has beer sitting on the floor at room temperature so achieving “properly stored” can be problematic

· Heady Topper is canned and consequently has zero air (oxygen) ingress. The majority of the packaged IPAs that I drink are bottled.

Cheers!

 

Honest question: if hop oils degrade so quickly in the finished beer why do they not degrade as quickly in the cone?

 

“…if hop oils degrade so quickly in the finished beer why do they not degrade as quickly in the cone?”

I doubt that there is a simple answer to that but I have some related comments.

Hop fade in beer is an oxidation process. There is always some dissolved air (oxygen) in beer and over time oxidation processes will occur that will result in hop fade. This process can be ‘delayed’ via cold storage: a cold (40 degrees F) IPA will resist hop fade (staling).

Hops are best stored cold in oxygen impermeable bags. The ultimate storage method for hops is placing them in mylar bags (which are oxygen impermeable) that are nitrogen flushed & sealed and then place those hops in a freezer (e.g., 0 degrees F). Whole hops can last up to a year stored this way; pellet hops can last several years.

So, the bottom line for both hoppy beers and hops is to reduce exposure to oxygen and store as cold as possible. Via nitrogen flushing and freezer storage: hops can last longer than beer.

Cheers!

 

The general rule, as others have pointed out, is that hops break down over time, and heat is a very large catalyst to that process, so if an IPA is kept refrigerated since being bottled the hop character may sustain itself and the flavor will not suffer, however i wouldn't recommend buying outdated IPA's from stores that don't keep their beers refrigerated. And dry hopped or or extremely hoppy beers i would only by fresh, because in those beers the hops are the prominent character, and any loss of quality will be very noticeable and is likely to adversely affect the taste of the beer.

 

can't say exactly, but the acids in the hops are what preserves them, as well as the beer, so i suppose it's possible that once the oil is extracted it has a lower acid content it loses its preservation.

 

that could also have to do with Sixpoint canning their beers, as cans provide better protection from oxygen then bottles.

 

Which makes me wonder why bottled beer can last over a century if oxygen ingress is such a problem;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1536396/Beautiful-beer-lost-in-the-vaults-since-1869.html
"It's amazing that beers this antique can still taste so delicious," he said. “Established wisdom would say beers this old should taste of vinegar, damp rags and Marmite. Instead, many show flavours of raisins and sultanas, baked apple and honey. The oldest – the 1869 Ratcliff Ale – is bright and luminous like an ancient Amontillado sherry and has a meaty character like smoked partridge with hints of molasses. It's amazing it tastes this good after 137 years."

 

I had last years hop henge (stored in a cooler the whole time) and it was good a year after it's bottled on date. Age dulled the intense hop flavors and bitterness but the flavors were still there and the quality malt was more foreword. My only thing against trying old big dipas is the gamble of wasting money on a drain pour.

 

“Instead, many show flavours of raisins and sultanas, baked apple and honey. The oldest – the 1869 Ratcliff Ale – is bright and luminous like an ancient Amontillado sherry and has a meaty character like smoked partridge with hints of molasses. It's amazing it tastes this good after 137 years."

Flavor descriptors like “raisons”, “honey” and “sherry” are all indications that oxidation has occurred. If a beer drinker likes oxidation derived flavors then by all means they should feel comfortable drinking aged beers. When I purchase a beer like Ithaca Flower Power IPA, I am seeking the aromas and flavors of the various hops used to brew that beer (“Hops: Simcoe, Chinook, Citra, Ahtanum, Centennial Dry-Hop: Simcoe, Amarillo, Centennial”). I have absolutely zero desire to taste “raisin”, “honey” or “sherry” in that beer.

I have a homebrewed Quad that I bottled on 5/14/13. It is approaching 1 year in the bottle and that beer has wonderful dark fruit flavors (raisins, figs, dried plum, …), some sherry and other dark malt derived flavors. I am hoping that this batch will last me another 1-2 years.

Cheers!

 

Drinking a hoppy PA now, it says keep cold and consume fresh, perishable. So exactly when is that, it's not bottle or best by dated, so how in the hell am I supposed to know what I have. A trade brew.

 

The sherry comparison was related to the colour of the beer as I understand it.
There is some minor oxidation but we are talking about 137 years in bottle without the contents being undrinkable or even showing advanced oxidation which surely indicates that oxygen permeability of glass exists in theory but in the real world allows a good few years worth of keeping. There are indeed many beers which drinkers cellar for years and thoroughly enjoy despite being stored in glass bottles.

 

Old IPAs are sad IPAs in my humble opinion. It's a style that's meant to be consumed fresh, because hop flavors (the crux of an IPA) deteriorate sharply.

What "fresh" means is, obviously, entirely subjective, and sometimes dependant on the particular beer. To me, fresh is up to 4 months out, but the sooner the better. Also completely subjective is folks' sense of taste; if someone likes a 9 month old IPA, more power to them.

 

That beer is showing severely advanced oxidation. That's exactly what the description is indicating. "Sherry" and "meaty" are primary descriptors for heavily oxidized and aged beer. Not all oxidized beers will be undrinkable though, and some can be quite nice, but they are still oxidized. It's the cork or crown cap on a bottle that allows in oxygen over time. I heard from an engineer at KHS, which is one of the world's premier bottle filler manufactures, that even the best crown caps let in around 1ppb of oxygen per day into the bottle. You simply can't keep oxygen out of a bottle though at a certain point it's all diminishing returns on how the oxygen changes the beer.

 

your excerpt aside, i don't recall saying it's any sort of problem i was saying that it's possible. additionally, i don't pretend to be an expert in the matter, but i would assume that there are different methods of bottling and some may work better then others.

 

To that which I do not disagree. However, I merely quoted mr. kimmich as the relavency to the op's post was:

1. He mentioned this beer was in the back of his fridge... I went ahead and assumed it had been back there since it was purchased, sometime in 2013.
2. Since he mentioned it was a "canned" IPA, I thought it was further relavent to mention another canned IPA, as opposed to the majority of which, are in fact bottled.

Op mentioned a canned, refrigerated ipa still being good, and I thought it would make sense to mention a brewer who also feels that his canned beer is still very good, a year later, if properly stored, ie; refrigerated.


That being said, there are far more bottles of IPA sitting on shelves far too long.