Old IPAs

Maybe Shane and Bill aren't following this thread?

I suppose we could tag them to solicit their thoughts on this matter: @Sixpoint & @sierranevadabill

Cheers!

 

Beer can be purchased directly from Texas brewers, or from vendors. The vendors agree to refrigeration conditions of both wine and beer in particular. There is no extra "fee" charged for this, but it factors into the margin for the product. Hence the additional expenditure.

 

Had Wookeyjack months after best buy date still had plenty of hops and aroma as well as the rye flavor well made stuff all around

 

Sorry I used the "wrong" words. Really not going to get in a pissing match over this.. The guy says it has beautiful hop nose, wonderful mouth feel. Nice bright hop character.... Basically says the beer is still fantastic at 1 yr..

Says "tastes almost identical"...

Everyone will drink their beer the way they think it is best... that's what is so great about beer.. different strokes for different folks..

 

No, he says the sediment he poured into the second glass tastes almost identical to the clean pour...he wasn't comparing fresh Heady to year old Heady with that statement...just sayin.

 

This is the point Ive been making for years now. All this hype about canned beer and how great it is and then you realize its being packaged by a brewery that produces 7,000 BBLs/Yr or something and you just know its not being done in a 5M KHS canning line. Hence the TPOs are off scale compared to a bottled beer off a Krones even with months on it. And the worse part is the average consumer looks at that can from SmallScalebrewersInc and thinks its the same quality as what Sierra puts out. And thats before you start to consider the environmental impacts of bauxite mining and the energy required to make the can for the first use. Not very green at all. Now also consider how many brewers still dont date their packages at all, which is pretty lame IMO.

 

To answer your question simply, any level of oxygen will have a detectable effect. As mentioned elsewhere, breweries with modern equipment can get their TPOs down to the 20-30 ppb range. 20-30 pbb of oxygen will still accelerate staling (and just what "staling" is is different with every beer style). The breweries using less-than-modern equipment (or perhaps less expensive equipment) can see oxygen levels in the ppm range. That's bad. Once you put beer in a package, because it's not at thermodynamic equilibrium, a war begins between pro-oxidants and anti-oxidants. The less oxygen you have, the longer the anti-oxidants last. A lot of the reactions that start from molecular oxygen result in a hydroxyl radical. Those radicals can do a lot of damage to multiple molecules before they're either quenched by another radical or captured by an anti-oxidant (hop acids and polyphenols are good radical scavengers). Damage, in this context, is anything that results in a flavor compound either going away or changing its flavor.

Not all of the oxidized compounds are necessarily bad. That 1875 beer you mentioned? Those fig, raisin, plum and tobacco flavors? Those are staling compounds. They would not have been present in the fresh beer. Do they taste bad? Well, I would leave that answer up to the individual, but I rather like those flavors, especially in a bottle I've cellared for a couple of years. I wouldn't want them an an IPA though - the brewmaster (unless they specifically say "age this beer!") wants you to taste their beer exactly how they packaged it. They're tasting it at its freshest when they design it initially and when they get ready to release each new tank.

I am also a cask ale enthusiast, but you can't tell me those casks don't go off quickly and that they aren't at their peak when they're first opened. The brightness of the hop aroma is the first thing to disappear.

 

I mentioned the very old beers because, although oxidation had taken place even after a century and a half it hadn't rendered the beers undrinkable. Advanced oxidation in my book involves acetaldehyde and of course acetic acid.I would have expected Victorian vinegar.So staling of a beer of that sryle is a very slow process indeed
Regarding cask ale , certainly once tapped its shelf life is a matter of days. But what glories the minor oxidation brings to the beer during that time.It's better than when it left the brewery and that never happens with bottle, can or keg.

 

I thought each year when hop ranch came out they were planning to use different hops? Could very well be mistaken but I also concur fresh hop ranch> dirt wolf but I think dirtwolf has better shelf life.

 

Truthfully I just drank a quite old hop stoopid (forgot it in fridge) and wasnt all that bad. Wasnt the great, sweet deliciousness it is fresh, but drinkable.

 

I buy "bargain bin" IPA's all the time and don't plan on stopping any time soon. They taste just fine to me.

 

I posted in a previous thread my personal experiences with Hop Ranch over time (4-5 months):

Story No. 2: Victory Hop Ranch

I bought three 4-packs of Victory Hop Ranch in early January. Those beers had a Best By date of May 19, 2014 so I am pretty sure these beers were bottled on December 19. 2013. From the Victory website: “Mosaic and Azacca”. So, compared to Flower Power this is a more simple beer but the challenge for me is that I only have a bit of familiarity with Mosaic hops (I will be homebrewing a Mosaic IPA in a few weeks) and zero familiarity with Azacca hops. Fresh Hop Ranch to my palate had a significant dank aspect to it. From what I read on BA, many (most?) BAs tasted tropical fruit flavors in Hop Ranch; needless to say but my palate is different from those folks. Since I am not a big fan of “dank” I really didn’t enjoy this beer when fresh. I decided to age these beers since hop flavor/aroma will ‘evolve’ with time. With about 1.5-2 months of age I enjoyed Hop Ranch more since the dank aspect diminished. My wife had a Hop Ranch earlier this evening and I took one sip. This beer now had a winey aspect to it that sort of reminded me of Nelson Sauvin hops (I am not a big fan of Nelson Sauvin). So, Hop Ranch to my palate went from dank to less dank (and therefore more noticeably fruity) to winey over a period of 4-5 months.

Cheers!

 

No the original Ranch draft series showcased various ranch's hops and some blends too, but when the decision was made to bottle Hop Ranch the two varieties were locked in. I also think this beer shows more tropical fruit notes than DW. This years HR was all made at Downingtown, but next years will be from Parkesburg with the larger system, better centrifuge, and better dry hopping tanks.

 

man, I wish you ran a store in NJ. it's amazing how many liquor/beer store owners here don't give a damn about freshness, just as long as the beer sells and they make a profit. unrefrigerated IPAs, IPAs bottled 4-5 months ago on the shelf... the prevalence of this stuff is just amazing to the point where the only time I would consider buying an IPA is on tap at a bar, or going to a brewery directly.

I'm SOOO tired of seeing an outdated surplus of Lagunitas IPAs, Founders Centenniel, Stone IPAs and the other assortment of outdated hoppy stuff at the avg liquor store in non-metropolis east coast areas. the only hoppy beer I can get fresh here is Boat Beer, and that's because it's good enough to ensure a good turnover rate and is local.

I feel like the distributors here don't care either. some beers don't even reach the shelf here until it's 4-5 weeks old. Lagunitas Sucks was a recent disappointment in that regard -- so glad I bought a 6-pack instead of a case when I saw it.

I wonder if Kane and Carton do not distribute their IPAs outside the brewery because they recognize that distribution in NJ is terrible, and whoever handles distribution would probably wait a month or two before putting their beers on the shelf, therefore not providing an accurate version of their wonderful beers.

 

Sucks has a Julian code on their beers so that doesn't sneak up on you, Two Hearted Ale here is almost always under 30 days old too. Other than these I buy local, always fresh, with HDR aroung the rest is moo anyway and they recently date code on the bottom of the cans.

 

While acetaldehyde can be caused by oxidation (but more likely yeast stress and poor fermentation), acetic acid is purely the result of infected beer. Casks are particularly susceptible to this as they allow oxygen in in large amounts, which allows any present acetobacter (which prefers aerobic environments) to go to town and create acetic acid in the beer. Most brewers don't want Fig, tobacco, honey, and other aged flavors in their beer, and this is what is commonly talked about when oxidation comes up.

 

Old IPAs suck donkey dick. I'd rather drink a sixer of anything over an old IPA. If I wanted to taste old hops I'd crush up an advil and mix it with my Boston Lager!

 

Ah thanks for clarifying, I knew I had heard something about different hops in regards to hop ranch. Im personally excited to see how the new system In Parkesburg effects the hop flavr profile. I can't imagine it would be much different but I've seen first hand how different systems can effect the aroma and profile from a local brewery here.

 

Three years ago I set back a four pack of Oskar Blues Deviant Dales IPA, drank one just a few months ago and it was quite delicious. I did not keep in in the fridge, just a cool dark cupboard. As you know, this is a canned beer in a tall can. http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2681/65347/

 

What about bottles stored on their side in a fridge or shelf such that the beer is in contact with the cap liner and and the air space is in the bottom of the bottle - does that have any effect on the various oxygen issues you mentioned?