Old IPAs

Rode my bike to a tavern in a nearby town last night and was served this.



My friends were also served ones well passed they Enjoy By date. Who is responsible in this situation - the bar, the distributor, is it my job to check it and send it back?

 

I just want to give a big thanks to @JackHorzempa, @Starkbier, and @Peter_Wolfe for all the great information in this thread. I learned a lot and I have more respect for breweries like Victory, Sierra Nevada, and even Anheuser-Busch for all their efforts in quality control. I probably won't concern myself so much buying "older" products from these breweries.

@Peter_Wolfe Do you know if A-B is using or plans to use their oxygen-scavenging cap liners for Goose Island or Blue Point?

 

Li'l bit of anecdotal evidence: The first time Williamsburg Alewerks released their Bitter Valentine DIPA, I got to try a bottle 2 days old. It wasn't so great, nothing to write home about. A couple weeks later, I start hearing about this beer, the best DIPA to come out of VA, they say. I said, "What?". So I got myself another bottle, that shit was awesome, juicy tropical fruit and dank hop notes, while the uber fresh bottle was extremely muted and bland, malts and hops both. And now since I've been homebrewing for a while I've found that hoppy styles especially have a sweet spot where the beer has conditioned and "come together", but yet is still "fresh". So yes hoppy beers do fall off, but they need some time to get out of their "green" phase, also.

 

This can all be summed up as:

As an IPA ages it will change. That may be good or bad depending on the beer. You may detect the difference, you may not and I'm willing to bet as long as it's not really old you won't.

Beyond that it's personal preference.

 

incorrect. you can usually detect the difference re: hop oil degradation after a week if the beer isn't refrigerated and after a few weeks if not. at least i can, and there's nothing special or "trained" about me.

definitely. the hope of course is that brewers won't release green beer.

agreed, @JackHorzempa, @Starkbier, and @Peter_Wolfe pretty much made this the best thread i've read in a long time. thanks.

 

Really depends on the beer and personal preference/palate. I just drank an Abrasive with about 4 months on it and it was still the gospel. On the other hand, I recently had a Jai Alai with roughly a month and a half on it and was very disappointed.

 

Oooooooooooook.

 

believe it or not. sadly, whether or not you believe it has no influence on its truth. hard world, huh?

 

That's exactly the way I felt about Weyerbacher's Viridis Lupulus last year. It was released to soon, and felt like I was sucking on raw hops- but just a few weeks after that it started to come into its own and those tropical/piney aromas finally developed. I have a feeling that this may have hurt the beer's early buzz, but I did enjoy easily finding it on the shelves once it came around.

 

Michael, when do you think commercial breweries should release IPAs?

I can tell you that my homebrewed IPAs peak at 4-5 weeks post bottling but since they are bottle conditioned beers I am uncertain how to relate my timeframes vs. commercially brewed beers.

Cheers!

Jack

 

Jack, I hate to give a cop-out answer but I do think that it depends on the hops and how they are used. I used to see that transformation happen with my own beers, so I'd expect that each brewer would try to find that window by sampling bottles prior to the initial release. Keep in mind that what I am talking about might not even be their 'peak', but just when that raw quality goes away. It also seems that beers that are heavily dry-hopped with American varieties require more of that conditioning time.

I haven't read the Mitch Steele book- do you know if he goes into this sort of topic?

 

I think there is a ton of variability in "peak" hop character based on brewing technique. Our beers taste perfect right out of the bright tank as far as I'm concerned, and need zero time in package to come together. Compared to how others brew, I can see why our beers are ready to go right away.

 

Michael, I have the Mitch Steele book but I don't recall if the topic of peak timeframe post packaging is discussed in the book.

Peter (@Peter_Wolfe ) is very knowledgeable on the topic of hops & how hops are used. Maybe he has some thoughts on this topic.

Cheers!

 

Lol, thanks for the lesson dude. It's YOUR truth. The fact remains it can change and still be great. That's what I stated. Your slinging "facts" about hop degradation when there was no argument about that, I only stated it changes.

I can tell your going to come back with a long winded argument. Save your breath, I could give a shit what you say next.

 

no, you said that people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. "You may detect the difference, you may not and I'm willing to bet as long as it's not really old you won't." but you're wrong; most people can tell the difference.

re: how much you don't care, that's pretty obvious.

 

I have a liquor store owner who would love to meet you. He's got some vintage 2010 Lagunitas maximus with your name on it.

 

Goose Island is using the scavenger liners. I imagine Blue Point will also at some point in the future; I can't imagine why they wouldn't.

 

Assuming the liner isn't an oxygen scavenger, that's actually worse. That just means that whatever oxygen diffuses through the liner will immediately react with the beer, instead of going into the headspace. If it's in the headspace, it will eventually react with the beer but the process is slowed down a little bit.

 

Nice! That information could score points with some of the finicky Beer Advocate crowd. I'm sure A-B's aim with Goose and Blue Point is bigger than the rabble posting here, but still... it couldn't hurt.

Just for your contributions to this thread, next time I'm beer shopping I'll pick up some Goose Island or Blue Point. ;-)

Thanks again!

 

So I'm in this guy’s house last night and I spot a case of Hopslam on the shelf in the garage unopened and I say "wow, you still have a case of Hopslam" and he replies "no, I have five cases of Hopslam" with a smile.
Normally I would have worked something out to score some but I had one at a tavern about a five weeks ago and refused the second one and here there's five cases sitting warm.

I still have a tear in my eye.