On American (Texas) sours

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by dennis3951, Jan 31, 2018.

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  1. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

  2. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Excellent read, well done, thanks for sharing!
     
  3. TheGent

    TheGent Grand Pooh-Bah (4,235) Jun 29, 2010 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Cool. Thanks for sharing.

    You learn something new every day. I didn't know Allagash trademarked the word "coolship" and then stopped enforcing the trademark.
     
  4. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    "Generally recognized" by people with little knowledge of the US brewing industry, I guess.

    Coolships aka "Coolers", "Surface Coolers", "Kühlschiffs" (alt., as two words, "Kühl Schiffs") were commonly used in US breweries for their original, namesake purpose, from pre-Pro period [illustration from Ehret's 1892 25 Years of Brewing].
    [​IMG]
    ....right up to the modern era - 1972 ad for the newly opened Schaefer brewery outside Allentown, PA - now operated by Boston Beer Co. - no idea if coolship is still in operation. The year of Repeal, Coors claimed to have the only solid copper Coolship in the world (?).

    Obviously, Allagash can claim to be the first US commercial brewery to use a coolship for spontaneous fermentation.

    Not sure what the Belgians call their units - "Coolship" is a direct translation from the German, likely used originally by American lager brewers of German background (although ""Kühlschiff" continued to be used into the 20th century in the US) or if Anchor ever called their swallow pan cooling unit by the term.
     
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    JK, don’t they refer to it using the Flemish word Koelschip?

    Cheers!
     
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  6. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Notice that the Coors ad is similarly wrong in that they claim to have the only COOLSHIP in the world when there are clear records showing the Belgians were brewing Lambics using the koolschip method both before the ad and at the same time.

    E.g., Cantillon was founded in 1900
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantillon_Brewery

    So what Coors seems to have added was the additional measure of a germ air-filtration system. Thus what Coors brought to the table was an air-filtered coolship and a purist could argue that it wasn't a true koolschip since it did not rely on spontaneous fermentation thus the yeasts, etc. would be different.
     
    #6 drtth, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  7. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    No, they claimed only is that they had the only "solid copper COOLSHIP"... I suspect most US coolships were probably iron or steel with a copper lining.

    But the original purposed of a Coolship/Kühlschiff was to cool the wort (thus the very name in both German - "Kühl = Cool" and English) not inoculate it with yeast, cultured or wild. In most US breweries, the wort would have been further cooled (via Baudelot cooler or other source of refrigeration/cooling) then moved to a fermentation vessel where the yeast would have been pitched.

    A 1938 US brewing text under "Kühl schiff" noted:
    Yeah, sounds right. I did a quick flip through Jackson's Great Beers of Belgium and didn't see anything....
     
    #7 jesskidden, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  8. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    As were the Belgian koolschips in use at Cantillon, etc. Thus they may have been the first "Copper" in the US but they were not the first in the world.
     
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I have seen a Kühlschiff in Germany, at a small older lager brewery. He said the wort comes in along one side so that it circulates around the Kühlschiff, acting like a whirlpool to form a trub pile in the center. Volatiles are allowed to flash off. The cooling is free. Once the wort is at ~60C, it is run trough a chiller on the way to the fermenters.

    Zum Uerige has a Kühlschiff, and uses a “sprinkle” cooler (a Baudelot cooler, but I don’t think the Germans use that term) that runs the wort over copper pipes. Scroll down to see the Kühlschiff.
    http://www.uerige.de/brauerei-brauprozess.html
     
  10. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Since that's 140F, the timing of the process makes complete sense as the temperature range for ambient inoculation is between 120F and 80F.
     
  11. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Look, your argument is with Coors' 1933-era advertising execs (but I think the statute of limitations might be up if you're thinking of suing)- I don't know if other brewers had units of solid copper or sheet copper hammered over a iron frame, etc. or if Coors was the first to be in a filtered/air-conditioned room.

    My point is only that coolships - used to cool wort - were a common piece of equipment in numerous US breweries, pre-Pro and post-Repeal, and they certainly predate those of Allagash.

    I used Coors claim 'cause it was handy in my files and a still operating US brewery - could easily have given another dozen or so examples in its place, like the use of one in P. Ballantine & Sons' brewery post-Repeal, where the wort goes from the hop strainer into the coolship and then onto the Baudelot cooler.
     
    #11 jesskidden, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  12. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Indeed. The heat exchanger was invented in 1923. Before that they had to cool the wort some other way.
     
  13. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Which was exactly my point.

    I was not arguing with you but simply pointing out, as you yourself often do, an error in the advertising. My comments were focused on that and not in any way on disputing your claim/argument that Allagash was not the first.
     
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  14. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    The miracle of the lambic process — which yields some of the world’s most complex and captivating beers, yet has caught on in America only recently — is what happens next: The beer starts to ferment spontaneously, no starter required.

    There is a diligent effort to get rid of this "spontaneous fermentation" idea. It's just not accurate, but coming up with an alternative phrase, like ambient inoculation, just hasn't been working out well. It's not a miracle. It's just knowing your microbes.

    Mr. Stuffings has consulted other brewers, and Belgium’s High Council for Artisanal Lambic Beers, to introduce a new certification mark — Méthode Traditionnelle — that Americans can use to market lambic-style beers made according to Belgian tradition. (Earlier, he proposed Méthode Gueuze, which the council detested; like most Americans, he now avoids what he called “the G-word” and “the L-word.”)

    I'm very happy that this appellation exists, because most sour beer out there is not lambic. Methode Traditionnelle is. The only difference is that it is being produced outside of Belgium.
     
  15. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    You must be referring to the SS plate counterflow heat exchanger used in breweries. Automotive radiators predate that, and steam engines used shell and tube heat exchangers in the boilers since early in the Industrial Age. The Baudelot cooler is from 1856. Those are all types of heat exchangers, just saying.
     
  16. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Neat stuff, that.

    https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/nREEqtvPoT/baudelot-cooler/
     
  17. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

  18. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Back to the article. The tour at Jester King is fun. Drinking some of their beers outside is relaxing. Then you can go over to Stanley’s Pizza for a pie and a beer from their selection of taps. On top of that, you can tour the TX Hill Country.
     
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  19. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    In my experience, the most beautiful/enjoyable part of Texas. Now add in Jester King....
     
  20. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I found the western part of TX very scenic and appealing. Big Bend, Marfa, Fort Davis, The McDonneld Observatory, etc. The beer options were not as good though.
     
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