One Ale, One Lager same mash

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by MADhombrewer, Apr 20, 2014.

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  1. MADhombrewer

    MADhombrewer Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2008 Oregon

    I would like to do my first Lager. Nothing special just want to see the process and results.
    I also have nothing in my kegarator now so I don't want to wait to get something going. One day to brew (don't know when I will get the next chance). I want to make the best of it. I was thinking of doing two beers (APA and Pilsner) with one mash. I would like to do half with a lager yeast and half with an ale yeast.
    Here is the recipe I have down so far:

    10lbs pilsner malt
    1lb crystal 40
    .25 dextrin malt
    Citra and cascade hops
    Mash temp: Don't know yet.
    5 % ABV-ish

    This won't be a traditional Pilsner but I am not looking for traditional one. Just looking to do one to see how it goes.

    Thoughts on the recipe?
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I might skip the carapils. Kind of redundant with a pound of C-40.
     
  3. MADhombrewer

    MADhombrewer Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2008 Oregon

    Last minute thought. No worries.
     
  4. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I know.. crystal police.

    Knock the crystal back a bit.. maybe half a pound in there. Would benefit both beers I think.

    Simple is sometimes the best bet.
     
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  5. basscram

    basscram Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2006 Maine

    Are you using 2 different fermentors? recipe looks pretty basic. Nothing negative to say about it at all in my opinion. I'm sure you will keep your mash temp in the low 150's which will be typical. when are your hops added? Not that it will make a big difference, just curious.
     
  6. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    Not going to be very pilsner like but I'm sure they'll be tasty beers, I don't really see any major issues with your plan.
     
  7. MADhombrewer

    MADhombrewer Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2008 Oregon

    Yes two different fermenters. I will do a starter for each yeast.

    My main focus will be to see how I do with the fermentation temps of the lager. I am not sure how the fridge will do without a temp controller.

    I wasn't sure how I would do the grain bill, thus the thread. Thanks for your input guys.
     
  8. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I was thinking of trying something very similar to this (maybe different hops tho, as I only have a few ounces of citra left). However, I will have two separate freezers each with their own controllers to keep fermentation temps in the desired range for each yeast. I would make starters as appropriate too.

    I will probably just do a smash (because I like smashes). While I don't have a problem with your grist, I have found that pure base malt actually doesn't need crystal malt to be delicious and have plenty of body and head if you do it right. However, if you wish to add crystal, don't think for a minute that I'm against it. I appreciate the simplicity of smash beers more than most, methinks.

    Fair chance super-galena will be the hops because I need to open a pound of them that I haven't tried yet.

    Main reason for (probably) starting to do lagers is that I can't seem to keep both freezers full of fermenting ales at all times (because I haven't found enough time to brew). Thus I can afford to brew something that takes considerably longer than an ale to ferment. Lagering is no problem because one of the two freezers would be devoted to lagers.
     
  9. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Considering the proportions he originally proposed, I agree with you 100%. Generally though, I sometimes like to use a combo of carapils and lower mid range (40 - 50) crystal malt in some recipes (admittedly, not the ones the OP is mentioning.....rather when I'm looking to increase the body to sweetness ratio in IPA's and DIPA's). Vinnie from Russian River seems to do that with his published pliny clone recipe too, as it calls for 4% crystal 45 and 4% carapils.
     
  10. MADhombrewer

    MADhombrewer Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2008 Oregon

    I thought of doing a SMASH for this but I thought a 100% pilsner malt APA would be way too thin for my tastes. Thus the crystal. Maybe I could sub the Crystal with Munich and/or carapils.
     
  11. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    If I'm reading you correctly, you plan on fermenting a lager in a conventional fridge? I see this being a possible major problem as a normal fridge may not have the range (mid 50s) you desire. Also, toward the end of fermentation you'll want to raise the temp to mid 60s for a diacetyl rest which I'm pretty sure is out of a fridge's range. I would test my fridge first with a bucket of water before committing a precious brew to an unknown process.
     
  12. MADhombrewer

    MADhombrewer Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2008 Oregon

    I have thought of this and I am testing my fridge. It is 38-40 deg at the mid way point on the dial. I will be turning it all the way up to see where it stops. Same with turning it all the way down.
    I think I can take it out of the fridge (leave in garage) for the Diacetyl rest and have about 62 degrees.
     
  13. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Seems fair enough. It'll be fine with crystal or carapils, or even with munich (me luv um munich!)
     
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  14. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    I would use Hallertau,Spalt,or Sazz for your main brew. The ale you could Dry hop with Citra and Cascade and get the flavor you want.
     
  15. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    The first thing that comes to mind for me is that you can do two separate boils. I'm not sure you mentioned it, but it sounds like it will just split the batch after the boil? Two separate boils will let you steep your crystals and specialty grains for the ale, while still pulling something very desirable aside for the lager.
     
  16. MADhombrewer

    MADhombrewer Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2008 Oregon

    I considered that but thought it would be a little eaiser to split the batch after the boil. I just needed some thoughts in the grain bill.

    I think I will hold off on the lager until I get a temp controler for the fridge. I have wanted to do a Baltic Porter for a very long time. I may just start with that.

    Thanks very much for everyone's input. It has made me think about a lot.

    Cheers.
     
  17. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    How about doing a 100% pilsner mash, running off the wort and then steeping the crystal in the APA kettle before the boil?
     
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  18. FarmerTed

    FarmerTed Pundit (928) May 31, 2011 Colorado

    The lager grain-bill wouldn't be too far off from a Cal Common. You could use the Cal lager yeast and ferment it out on the warmer side.
     
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