Over-carbonated

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by fAtHanD, Dec 18, 2012.

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  1. fAtHanD

    fAtHanD Crusader (443) Mar 7, 2007 Michigan

    May have over-carbonated a barleywine but not 100% sure.

    OG 1.091
    FG 1.022

    Brewed on 9/30 then bottled it on 11/25. Bottled with 1 oz table sugar at 40 degrees.

    Stupidly added a whole pack of S04 dry yeast. First, I know now a whole pack is not necessary and I should of used 1/2 pack, and second, the added extra yeast to the bottling bucket was probably not necessary at all.

    But I am were I am at and the first few that were opened gushed. What I am wondering is if the CO2 will dissolve a bit into the solution given more time or is it best to opened them now and recap?
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    One ounce of table sugar into how much beer?

    Also, extra yeast does not result in more carbonation than the fermentable sugar content can produce.

    Also, the CO2 produced via bottle conditioning is already as dissolved as it's going to be.
     
  3. fAtHanD

    fAtHanD Crusader (443) Mar 7, 2007 Michigan

    Sorry 5 gallons.

    I agree that "extra yeast does not result in more carbonation than the fermentable sugar content can produce" however I was wondering if this fresh yeast was able to consume any residual sugars that the primary yeast was unable to.

    I have bottle primed with way more than 1 oz of sugar for a 5 gallon batch before and never had this problem. In fact 1 oz seems extremely low. The only thing I did different on this batch was use the whole packet of yeast so I am trying to determine what went wrong.
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You got about 76% attenuation, which doesn't sound stuck/under-attenuated to me. Certainly one ounce of sugar in 5 gallons is not going to cause gushers. Are you certain about your gravity readings?
     
  5. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I would crack one open, let it gush out, then take a gravity reading on that at 60 degress and see if its quite a bit lower that 1.022. 1 oz of priming sugar should not cause gushers as i'm enjoying a 1.084 OG 1.012 F.G. DIPA of mine that i used 4.2 oz. of priming sugar on and carbonation is perfect. I didn't add any extra yeast at bottling on my beer either but as vikeman had mentioned that yeast is only gonna eat up the fermentable sugar thats in the bottle. Does it taste infected???
     
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  6. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    One ounce of sugar for 5 gallons seems a little bit low. Here is Palmer's idea on the subject:

    http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter11-4.html

    It does take some time for the CO2 to dissolve into the liquid. But it has been 23 days since bottling, usually that is enough.

    I inadvertently overcarbonated some pale ale once. The pressure continued to build over the months until it was dangerous to open them. Fortunately I had swing-top bottles, so after putting on eye protection I flipped the swing-top and let them off-gas for about two minutes. The liquid "boiled" as if I had a flame under it. Re-sealed and they were still good (and safe to open).
     
  7. fAtHanD

    fAtHanD Crusader (443) Mar 7, 2007 Michigan

    I thought I was certain about the gravity reading but now I am not so sure. It does not taste infected so I will plan to check the gravity like psnydez86 suggested and see if it dropped more after I bottled. Then recap if necessary.
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Sounds like a plan. But one thing... if your FG was really something higher than 1.022 (and the wort sugars continued to ferment in the bottle), you really have no good reading to compare the later (post bottle conditioned) reading to. I would agree that if it tastes fine, letting off some pressure and recapping is probably the way to go. Also, if you do take a gravity reading, make sure the beer is de-gassed (flat) before measuring. CO2 will affect the hydrometer reading.
     
  9. itsjustzach

    itsjustzach Initiate (0) Oct 23, 2006 Ohio

    How many bottles have you opened so far? Assuming your FG reading and priming solution measurement is accurate, the only way any bottles should be overcarbed is if the priming solution wasn't mixed very well with the beer. Maybe try opening a bottle that you filled at a different time during the batch than the others.
     
  10. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Also you need to make sure your priming solution is mixed well with your beer. If you put your solution in the bucket and rack on top of it without a good mix your last few bottles can get over carbinated. I do not think one once did this.
     
  11. fAtHanD

    fAtHanD Crusader (443) Mar 7, 2007 Michigan

    So it looks like it wasn't done fermenting. I did as suggested and took a reading last night and the gravity at 60 degrees with no carbonation was 1.018. At bottling it was at 1.022. So between now and then it dropped another .004 points. I used WLP007 which I know is a monster yeast so I assumed at 1.022 it was done. Apparently not.

    This was a 10 gallon batch and I have 5 gallons aging on oak. I plan to bottle this weekend so it will be interesting to what the FG will be on that one.

    Of the 6 I have opened all foamed. Should I recap or just chalk it up a lesson learned and let them be?
     
  12. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    I am a little suprised that your beer was not finished after almost 2 months of fermentation. Usualy WLP007 is done within a week.
     
  13. fAtHanD

    fAtHanD Crusader (443) Mar 7, 2007 Michigan

    I'm surprised too. With that yeast and that amount of time I assumed at 1.022 it was ready to bottle. Could it be the whole packet of dry yeast (S04) I added at bottling be the culprit for that renewed fermentation?

    Also I am on the fence if I should recap. I'd love to age these but if they are just going to be a foamy mess I want to just get rid of them.
     
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If the WLP007 had quit on you, then yes, this is a possibility. But with all the information presented, my guess now is that the WLP007 was still doing its thing, and the result would have been similar whether you added the S-04 or not.
     
  15. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    What was your original pitching rate like?? I recently (probably) over pitched a 1.084 Dipa with 2 packs of wyeast 1084 In a 2.5l starter. The beer took off and fermented out in like 5 days to 1.012. I also used a minute of pure 02. My apparent attenuation was 86% from over pitching I assume and the yeast is rated at 71-75%. Maybe if you over pitched slightly and during fermentation the beer experienced a drop in temp causing the yeast to floc out early and once warmed back up to bottling condition temps it really started chowing down sugar?? I'm just trying to figure out how this happened because you did get a really good attenuation but it boggles my mind that you have gushers??
     
  16. fAtHanD

    fAtHanD Crusader (443) Mar 7, 2007 Michigan

    I pitched a 2L starter that I stepped up once but as I stated this was for a 10 gallon batch total. So say 1L starter. I ferment in the basement in Michigan so the temp stays pretty constant around 67.

    I guess I will have to just have to assume the yeast weren't done fermenting.

    But more importantly, should I recap or am I stuck with foamy bottles here?
     
  17. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    While overpitching can, indeed, cause issues, over attenuation is not one of them. Once the food source (fermentable sugars, in this case) is exhausted, fermentation is complete, no matter how much yeast was pitched or, in this case, added at bottling. It won't attenuate any further because there's no more food left. Ten guys eating ten lbs of baked beans will produce the same amount of bean induced methane as fifty guys eating the same ten lbs of beans (joviality induced methane, while abundant during such an experiment, doesn't count). And inviting more guys to the experiment after the beans are gone will not affect the outcome (again, joviality notwithstanding).

    Two months should be more than enough time for that beer to have finished fermenting. 1 oz sugar at bottling should not have caused the beer to be over carbed. The additional yeast at bottling was likely irrelevant (and likely unnecessary). The additional attenuation is puzzling, to say the least.

    The only three plausible explanations that come to mind (there may be others that I haven't thought of):
    1. the sugar was not sufficiently mixed in the bottling bucket
    2. there is an infection that has not yet manifested itself in a way that you can detect through taste or aroma.
    3. S-04 may be a higher attenuating yeast than 1084, so it went to work on sugars that were not palatable to 1084.

    I think #1 is unlikely, since that would not explain the additional attenuation. I have no experience with 1084, so I don't know if #3 makes sense or not.

    #2 and #3 are more likely. Given that no infection is evident, I'm going with #3.
     
  18. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Very nice!! The op didn't actually use 1084, but wlp 007 instead. I was just giving a personal example where I got much higher attenuation than the yeast is rated for and didn't really know if that had anything to do with the op's issue. I've heard that the English yeasts can floc out early if a temperature decrease during fermentation occurrs and is significant. ??? Puzzling situation.
     
  19. fAtHanD

    fAtHanD Crusader (443) Mar 7, 2007 Michigan

    I think #3 seems the most plausible as well.

    So can I recap?
     
  20. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    You're right. My bad.
     
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