Over serving at craft beer spots

used to live next to a bar that served everything in pints. Alligash crexiux, 90 minute, duvel. Many good night's there. Cheap prices made them go out of business.

 

No I think servers should keep serving people who are obviously drunk. To hell with the safety of that patron and the public at large-sell another pint!!!
You asked the question, did you think that would be someone's answer?

 

Look, I know all of us here are experienced drinkers and some have brought up the point that "how can you tell they're drunk enough to stop serving them?" But let me tell you from a law enforcement perspective, it's exceedingly easy to tell when someone is intoxicated to a dangerous level. I am all for people drinking and being a bit intoxicated at a bar. That's what bars are for. As long as you came up with a solid after action plan before you got drunk and are still coherent enough to carry it out and get home safely without being a dick, more power to you. I've helped more people get into a taxi outside our local watering holes then I can count when I was working the night shift. All in the name of safety and good fun. I'd like to think there's a lot of people that are grateful for that.


The drinkers that are gonna be a problem you can usually spot a mile away. I realize bartenders are swamped on the weekends and do their best, I don't expect them to be superhuman and you're right, it's incumbent on you to not be a drunken jackass in public. But ive also picked people up out of the gutters in front of the bar covered in vomit less than 10 feet from the door. That's a drinker any employee in the bar should have taken note to have cut off several drinks prior. Mankind has a terrible track record for individual responsibility, and sometimes other people need to tell you when you're overdoing it. it really shouldn't have to come down to a Public Intox charge and me biohazard cleaning my squad car out cause old Rhonda behind the bar wanted a bigger tip out of Puker McShitstains I had to save from crawling himself out into traffic. My two cents. All it takes is a simple "I tabbed you out and theirs three taxis waiting in line outside pal, get home safe". And carry on to the next guest.

 

As someone who frequents both craft beer bars and standard and dive bars I can, without question, state that in my experience there are less problems in craft brew bars where the alcohol contents tend to be higher.

Except for the college crowd hitting craft beer bars, I've rarely seen anything, but at the regular working man's bars it seems to be a common and continual thread.

So are people over-served at upscale beer pubs? Yes, on occasion. But are they over-served at the local hole-in-the-wall / six-pack-to-go bar? Yes, FAR MORE!!!

 

Easy to do out my way is get sloshed while brewery crawling. Brewery staff have to be real diligent. I've seen plenty of instances of a local Brewery refusing to serve beer to an obviously inebriated individual.... Drooling with his head down on his arms, falling off a stool, standing but swaying badly. With 10 Breweries within walking distance of each other, you could end up crawling before the night is out.

So, no, I rarely see it out my way. In fact, I have helped out on occasions. Sometimes bartenders are so busy they can't see the finer points of someones inebriation. I've, a few times, looked at a bar keep and ran my finger across my throat in a (I wouldn't serve them anymore) gesture and they always get the message.

 

I am glad because I am that drunk person. I don't want to have to leave the party. I think it is hard to tell as a bartender how drunk someone is especially if you are a professional (like myself). Now the person obviously blasted yes, no big deal. I however don't drive money isn't a big issue so a $100 cab ride is the price of admission for me. But if someone isn't causing a problem and wants to drink himself to death and isnt driving let him have at it. You are not the arbitrator of humanity and a wrongful death suit would be almost impossible to win against a bar and even more so against the server if someone drank themselves to death.

 

If their not driving who cares how they leave. If their happy drunks keep pouring. If they pass out put them in the corner. That's what we always did.

 

In Ohio there is a certification called "Tips". It goes over roughly how much beer, wine, and hard liquor the average person can handle, how to recognize somebody whom has had too much, how much time it takes for the body to metabolize alcohol, and how to cut someone off.

In Ohio, the establishment that served you is somewhat responsible for you. If you where to get in an accident after drinking at a bar, the law can come down on the bar if they feel that the person was knowingly over served. I just recently went through the class, and was certified, even though I have nothing to do with the alcohol side of the casino. It's a serious enough issue that everyone in the building, sans housekeepers, have been trained. Now having said that, people still get drunk at the casino. Different bar tenders don't know who's had what, same for our cocktail waitresses. Combined this with some people's "tolerance" and servers desires for tips, and people will get drunk. At that point our management steps in, gets the patron a coffee and food on the house, and try to get someone to bring these people home, with the option to call cabs.

 

All I have to do is get drunk and I get a free dinner? What is the name of your establishment?

 

I would have to disagree. Some people willingly go past their limits for multiple reasons, and when you work somewhere with people you have to have some kind of compassion. Even if I don't know someone and they're stumbling around, I still think "Man, I hope they're alright".

Also, cleaning up puke really, really sucks.

 

I should of mentioned what i wrote pertained to what was the norm over 20 yrs ago with macros. I would be afraid to see what would happen to someone that drank mugs of Double IPAs.

 

A client of mine in the bar/restaurant business says they follow a common sense rule of when in doubt, don't. The few problems he's had were with inexperienced drinkers who were celebrating some big event in their lives. He also said the real drunks rarely bother leaving home.

 

They are supposed to keep track of the number of drinks and keep in mind how people professionally handle the symptoms. aka, The bartender is still responsible.

 

The only person over serving is the drinker. Though the bartender has the responsibility -- technically, 20 years ago when we first heard the term "over served" it was a joke- because we all knew whose was responsible.

 

I was a bartender 35 years ago and we were responsible for cutting people off when they had enough. Things weren't as tight as they are now, but laws were in place. I personally only had to cut a few people off. Most were accepting, but one young lady flashed her tata's in an effort to convince me to serve her. Then the cussing out began when I refused.

As to tolerances, I once ran an experiment on a couple of business men I could see from my service window in a restaurant bar. One was an older 50's man and his protege (I assume) was in his late 20's. They were both drinking what the older man was drinking, scotch and soda. The younger guy continued to match the older guy drink for drink throughout the night but their reactions were markedly different. The young man began the evening sitting on the edge of his chair with rapt attention to everything the older guy said or did. He attempted to retain this posture throughout but wasn't very successful. He was melted by the end of their dinner. The older man's posture and demeanor never wavered. According to the visuals, I should have cut the young man off about the time their dinner was served, but I would have never cut the older man off. According to the amount I was serving I should have cut them both off. I didn't because I was too caught up in watching what was happening. I hope the statute of limitations for over serving has run it's course.

 

At our hunting club we had an old boy in his eighties who could put away half a fifth of Bourbon with no observable change in his demeanor. You actually had to know him pretty well to realize he'd been drinking. We also had a guy who would start slurring his words after the second drink which is why we nicknamed him Two Finger Jack.

 

Lose a lawsuit, lose your liquor license, you'll lose your liquor liability insurance. Employees lose their jobs too. And the lawsuit in this case may have been over a loss of life. All of these losses are over an extra 1-2 beers/drinks that shouldn't have been served for an additional $15 in the till. With a lawsuit history for this owner, there will be no more liquor liability insurance approved by an insurance company, so getting back into business by trying to start again as a new bar will not happen.

Someone who has been over-served and then walking out into traffic can easily cause a fatal accident, thus a lawsuit. Or the drinker can walk out the door of the bar and drop dead because of liquor poisoning. His spouse would likely sue the bar because she no longer has s source of income for the family.

 

Not sure what it's like everywhere else, but in my area when the brewery boom happened many instituted a "3 beer limit". It's kind of a generic limit, as ABV/glass size/persons gender/persons weight-genetics has no real bearing. For the most part, it has done a decent job and it seems to have become a standard in my area.

Now where it falls flat is when people go on brewery crawls (some you can walk to. But for the most part you would need to drive). I have seen people go to that limit each and every place. It's like telling someone they can't do something, and then they go ahead and do it anyways. If a 4.5% pilsner counts as "1" and a 6.9% IPA counts as "1", it feels like many go to that higher limit to get their "time and moneys worth". "Limits" have sort of become a game to some.

Another problem is restaurants that may not be too familiar with what they are serving. I've been told at countless places that my 7% witbier thats being served in a 22 ounce glass counts as "two". Other places say that I can only have two of the 22 oz 7% beers. Yet a 6.8% beer has no limitations. In a funny twist, I was able to have two witbiers at one place, but told I couldn't get a third. But then they let me drink Macro beers without any limits after.

I like that places are trying to set limits and thresholds. But more often than not, common sense is going out the window. I've been to a few hole in the wall places that are just getting into the craft options. They let patrons drink 6 bud lights, but set strong limitations on the craft options (you can't have this X beer in a size above 16 oz. And you can only have two of them total). It's almost like they have been told by distributors/had Macro lobby against craft options. Or they really believe Macro beers are nothing but water.

 

Wow. If I went to an establishment and they told me I could only drink x amount of craft beer, but could drink all the Bud I wanted, I would walk out. That is about the dumbest thing I ever heard.

 

in the case of a bartender serving a clearly intoxicated patron-shame on them. It is wrong and illegal. Otherwise, this whole "over serving" thing is a made up deep pocket for our "blame everyone else but me" society.

Bul@#$I%t