Over the Rainbow? Why Queer Beer Is Important

I read it 3x and am still not totally sure what the point of this article is.

I don't "buy local" to buy local. I also don't buy unknown beer because of silly names or cool graphics, and similarly I don't see myself buying unknown beer because it has LGBTQ cues on it. As others have said it seems like the long game would be making great beer to get repeat buyers... I might not always re-buy good beers, but I definitely don't re-buy crummy ones.


I guess like most things on BA this is just a thinly veiled sales pitch for a beer fest, which is fine, but I don't think making assumptions about BA's interest, ambivalence, or distaste for social issues being juxtaposed onto beer packaging is a particularly meaningful or thoughtful exercise.

 

The only thing important thing about “queer beer” is that they get the fair opportunity to compete regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation. From there on it’s no more important than anyone else opening a brewery, go get it, and it’s a tough market.

 

Wait a minute. Specific groups shouldn’t get special treatment????

Someone should tell everyone else :-)

 

The author is pretty clear on what their article is about, "If you’re still here, pull up a virtual bar stool while I distill the last 50 some-odd years of queer history down into a not-even-remotely-comprehensive, beer-centric paragraph."

The author provides a little bit of history, a little bit of info on how people are being welcomed into beer spaces, and details how one can support these LGBTQ+ breweries if they're interested in doing so. As per history, I didn't know about the Coors boycott and I appreciate the info!

Is the article winning a pulitzer? Probably not, but neither is, "A quick guide to cannabis beer." Overall though, this article adds to BA and is about beer, beer and identity. Dudes on BA are acting like this is a hit piece on cis-het bros or something. Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew!

 

Hi there @Dansac - sorry it took me a while to respond, life has been quite busy these last few days. Forgive me if I do not reply to every single point you made; after reading much of your reply, it seems that you and I have been rehashing a lot of points that others have made throughout the thread, and that seems unnecessary to me. I'm going to pick out a few things, and if I miss something that you feel is important, do let me know.

Whether intentionally or not, I think you misrepresented my sarcastic point about only buying "gay beer" all the time - I most certainly do not do that and obviously would never expect anyone else to do that, just as I would never expect literal numerical parity between LGBT and straight/cis brewing industry people. As for what I'd like people to do, in rereading my post I concede your point that I was not as clear as I should have been when I said that we as a beer community should "push for inclusion." My intention with that statement was essentially what I believe to be the point of the original article, which is that I believe it is incumbent upon those who have societal privilege to use that privilege to help those with less privilege in society. Sure, that isn't a concrete goal, but I don't think it necessarily needs to be. From where I sit as a long-time craft consumer, this just means making an effort to visit and patronize breweries and beer bars that are owned by LGBT individuals (as well as BIPOC- and women-owned businesses, which isn't this precise conversation, but is a closely related one).

Which brings me to this statement:

This seems the primary point of disagreement that you and I have, as well as others who profess that "nothing matters except the beer." You said more than once in the remainder of your post that you don't believe there is a moral imperative to buy from minority-owned breweries just because they are minority-owned. This has been discussed over and over in previous pages, and there are a good many of us who believe that true "equal opportunity" could only exist in a society where all people were equal and discrimination did not exist, and I don't think one needs to look further than this thread to see that we are not at that point... and had the moderators not deleted some comments, I rather suspect that it would have been even clearer.

You are certainly correct that there are more ways than one to support marginalized communities, and I applaud you for doing your part in the classroom. I am also an educator, and I think it's important for people like us to provide diverse histories and contexts to our students, as well as a supportive (and constructively critical) forum to discuss them. While this will hopefully create more thoughtful individuals in society, and yes, decrease the likelihood that people will be mistreated and receive unequal treatment in the future, I don't believe that it will do much to help an existing business keep the lights on, buy a pallet of grain this week, or pay the rent this month.

As the original article says, "A great way to show that queer businesses are economically beneficial is to (wait for it) support queer-owned businesses. This can be as simple as buying and drinking a beer or attending an event..." Importantly, this does not mean that one cannot still patronize other businesses, nor that anyone necessarily needs to be subsidizing subpar beermaking simply because of the brewer's identity. At no point did either myself or the author of the article make that claim. Like, I still sometimes trade for Tree House IPAs, and if I decided to visit a queer-owned brewery that had terrible beer, I wouldn't make it my regular weekly stop. But it does mean that if I have a choice to spend my money in a place that I know will help those who have historically faced discrimination, I will often choose to do so.

No, this doesn't mean that we have to go all-out in supporting literally any underrepresented group at every single turn, though your flippant examples were certainly amusing, and I would no joke love to support a maker of Salvadorian confectionaries if I knew of one in my city, especially if they did a pastry stout collab with a local brewery. Beer is my hobby and something I have dedicated time and resources to understanding, so I think it makes sense that it would be an area where I try to be discerning about my purchases.

Another important aspect of this from the original article is the author's point that supporting places that place an emphasis on minority representation is in many ways an investment in the future of brewing. Straight/cis white dudes have no problem seeing themselves in beer culture; many other minorities don't have that luxury, at least not to the same extent, and while it isn't a barrier for everyone, I absolutely understand how it could be for others. So unless we want to miss out on the potential that expanding the pool of potential beer drinkers and producers, why wouldn't we want to try to expand the on-ramps (by patronizing minority-owned businesses, among other ways) for communities that historically haven't had as much access?

One last quote that I can't finish without mentioning...

I hear you, but I would also say that for someone who certainly seems to recognize the importance of identity from how you describe conversations in your classroom, then I'm surprised that you cannot see how constantly insisting that you would prefer to ignore or discount the identity of the brewer can sure make it feel like you are indifferent to someone's view of the importance of their own identity. In other words, I see a contradiction between "I don't think your identity matters when I'm buying your beer" and "I think being gay can be an important part of your identity." I don't think you're being intentionally pejorative, but I also don't think you get to decide whether or not someone else can or should be offended when you say things like that.

Oh and for what it's worth, I was a bit frustrated when I wrote that your attitude "sucks" - that was unnecessary, and I should have been more constructive in stating my disagreement. My apologies.

Cheers.

 

I suppose the irony of saying I'm wrong for making an assumption, then going on to make several assumptions is lost...

If you really think that me making several lengthy, earnest posts with a variety of discussion points about why I believe in the importance of supporting minority individuals in my favorite hobby is "virtue signaling," then I'm not sure you know what that term means.

At the risk of engaging you in good faith when that courtesy has not been extended to me, then yes, of course there are breweries operated by LGBT folks who are not making their identity a selling point of their product or experience. But that's not really the point of this article, is it? The stated goal is to support LGBT-owned and LGBT-celebrating businesses because it is good for individual business that may or may not have faced an uphill battle to get their brewery off the ground, good for individuals who could use some representation to be more comfortable in this corner of society, and good for the beer community at large to increase the base of people who could become customers and maybe even producers. Honestly, I'm not sure how that could be problematic to anyone who cares about the industry unless they have a particular problem with LGBT people.

 

Read the whole article and I still only care about the beer. I guess I'm tired of all the identity issues that seem to plague the country but cheers anyway

 

Just here for beer----no distinction on what I do with my private parts
is necessary; could care less, that is what being an American is all
about. PERIOD. You mind Yourn', it's your bedroom, leave mine alone
and don't want to know.

Cheers

 

People claiming it's only about the beer are like the people who claim to be "color-blind" when it comes to race. It's a way of ignoring systemic issues, making yourself feel better because you're "not a part" of the systems that marginalize women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+, etc., and thus perpetuating the systems of marginalization. Nothing exists in a vacuum. That's not how life works.

 

That's cheap holism. Of course everything is bound to cultural, economic and social factors. How else could it be? That's utterly ubiquitous and banal.

The jump from that trivial observation to claim one should support the "beer LGTB industry" seems to me a convenient marketing gimmick more than a serious way to address issues of inequality. What is that supposed to mean? One ought to buy beer brewed by LGBT invidivuals even if they don't like it, or if they prefer another beer? If I see a new brewery that brews styles I like and am drawn to it great, if it supports a good cause, all the better.

But what exactly is one supposed to do? Cheap moralism is nothing but histrionic virtue signalling.

 

I'm breaking my own rule of never responding to someone who uses the term "virtue-signaling" (and god i just realised it's the same guy who was ranting about dessert beers - shocker), but did you read the article? you understand nobody is asking you to buy caseloads of beer you don't like?

 

Umm yes and no.
I have definitely bought numerous cases of beer I didn't want/need. But I have no problem supporting a just cause (my stance is bring everyone to the table)

 

Considering how many people in this thread are posting that it's only about the beer as if beer and beer culture exist in a bubble outside of all social, economic, and political factors, I'd say it's not that obvious a point to many.

As for what to do, don't ask me. I'm just another bearded cis-het white dude who's basically a staple in every single brewery in the country. And while in our society we tend to think we know the best solutions to everything, we actually don't. Reach out to your local brewers or breweries who are women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+, or other marginalized groups about how you can better support them. Read and listen to their stories and struggles.

Logic really is hard if you think recognizing someone's race is the same as judging based on race. If you can't acknowledge someone's race and systemic racism without judging people based on race, you might be part of the problem

 

Good for you if you go to the extent of buying multiple cases of beer you don’t want. However I don’t think that is a reasonable ask of anyone, or really what the writer of the article was suggesting - to repeatedly buy case after case of beer you don’t like.

Personally I think it’s about having a certain degree of empathy, recognising the fact that an LGBTQ-owned/run (or one run by any minority) brewery will have generally faced many more obstacles to get up and running vs the more typical straight white male-owned venture, and taking an extra step to support them by going and trying/buying their beer, both from the financial standpoint but also to show solidarity/inclusion. That said - if the beer is repeatedly bad, I don’t think anyone can/should be expected to return/buy again and again and again. If you’re suggesting that is what people should do / that is what author of the article is driving at, well then it’s giving some weight to the person I responded to. That really wasn’t my take though. If I misunderstood your post, my apologies.

 

I have to literally bite my tongue hard to not speak up at work. I’ve lost jobs in the last because of my aggression towards unacceptable slander and behavior towards diverse people. I come from a diverse family and im very outspoken and confrontational if needed because unrelated ( I love bitching people out who are not as hard as they say because I’m a big dude) and will fight if I have to to support my belief. No it’s more of a “you want to get rid of them? Ok then start with me” It seems much I call it young and full of testosterone but Anyways. My point in telling u this is you must have some kind of willpower friend. I can not stand the verbal ignorance and would rather be potentially punched in the face than hear it.

that’s all from me. I don’t want to get banned or start some political beef in here.

 

I don't know what planet people live on here. I am am adjunct Latino university professor who makes 20k a year or less. I teach literature and philosophy and lost teaching because of Covid. I teach about gender, class, race, and have myself written on the topic. I am more than happy to support businesses whose products I enjoy or find useful, and am happy to support a business ran by marginalized groups if they make a great product and it is within my limited reach.

Nobody gives a sliver of a fuck about the struggles the "Latino adjunct professor community" faces. Do you support the Guatemalan chocolate community? Or the Persian pizza community? Or the Ecuatorian beer community? People like to parade their moral accolades here as representatives of the "beer community" but they are the ones living in a vacuum. If you want me to support LGBT businesses how about YOU you support the struggles of the marginzales communities that are outside your petty hobbyist preferences?

Have you reached to your local latino breweries to ssk about their struggles? How about the Latino adjunct professor community? What have you done to support them?

I'm sorry, but the degree of petulance and cheap moralism here is cookie-cutter identity politics, perfectly catered to market dynamics. It's easy to talk as if reaching out and supporting a given minority group and business was a generalizable practice until you realize there are marginalized groups in every single industry and product on earth.

Again, I'll support breweries that make the beer I enjoy and will enthusiastically support anyone who is LGTB who does so, just like I will do som if they are of color, have mental disorders or disabilities, and confront anyone who acts with hatred or discrimination against them.

 

You don't need to answer to me, and your cheeky attitude is stupid.

I did read the article. What was unclear to me what was how "support" was supposed to be manifested, and I questioned generalizing the principle of supporting minoritarian and marginalized struggles to every conceivable market subset in the world. Because, you know, every industry has marginalized groups and supporting them can't be a manner of financial backing unless you have indefinite money and time. And guess what, I don't.

And no, I don't understand what I am being asked to do.

Do you support the Latino adjunct professor community?

 

Also, there is a difference between saying one's purchasing beer decisions are based on one's beer preferences alone and saying that beer production is not bound to a huge variety of factors.

I certainly recognize there is unequal representation of many groups in the beer industry, as in any industry. And these are very often continuous. But these dont guide my purchasing decisions or bar/shop attendance decisions with regard to beer. They will, if for instance I witness a beer business support racism/mysogyny, etc. And i tried the Black is Beautiful series once, and some other fund raising charity beers made by breweries I enjoyed.

But other than that, it's about the beer for me. That doesn't mean I'm oblivious or indifferent to the struggles of LGBT people or do not support their struggles in other ways, or listen to them.

 

If you've read the article, read the comments, and still don't know what's being asked of you, then I'm not sure what else to say. You're either being obtuse or, well....your students may not be getting their money's worth.....

To (incorrectly no doubt) take your question as genuine - in all honesty, no I don't actively support the Latino adjunct professor community. Like you yourself said, there are a lot of causes/struggles that need support and only so much time in the day and only so much money in my pocket. And I don't work in academia, have no particular interest/passion for it, and probably didn't make the best use of my own education. But guess what? We're on beer advocate. What is the (presumable) common thread that runs through this community? I'm hoping it's the love of beer. So what's being asked? That we beer lovers recognise the extra hurdles/dynamics associated with setting up/owning an LGBTQ-run brewery, and perhaps make a little extra effort to understand some of the history, and perhaps inconvenience ourselves by taking the longer route home or going an extra few miles to buy a pint from a place like that. And then take it from there. Nothing more or less. But it's being treated by you and others as a huge ask.

 

I want to know more about what you're saying, but I don't think I entirely understand your point and I don't want to misrepresent what you mean. I hear you on how who hard it is to support everybody and the unfortunate abundance of marginalized groups, but are you suggesting we not help/advocate for anybody until we can figure out how to help/advocate for everybody? Or are you being critical of the way we choose which groups to help?

As per the plight of adjuncts, it's off topic, but I hear you on how mistreated adjuncts are, particularly in fields like literature and philosophy.

Back to the article, do you agree it's at least about beer (though not just beer)?