Oxbow (2020)

WHAT?! C’mon Oxbow! I love that series...

 

Is GFTW a no-go this year? I know they set the date pre-pandemic, but no info since then.

 

I never saw a date set, when was it planned for?

 

Columbus Day weekend. Oct. 17.

 

I remember the conversation As I think about it I'd shift the conversation about price point to a discussion on value. Price and value are tied together but I think there are subtle enough nuances that it's better to discuss value than price. Value is also something that I am considering more and more in my purchases. Value doesn't mean that I won't pay a high price, it just means that I'm more likely to base my purchases on both the quality and cost of a purchase compared to other options.

As an example in the picture posted above, the Luppolo and the Farmhouse Ale are pretty close in cost if you factor in the amount of oz per purchase. The Luppolo was $15 and the Farmhouse would be a little over $15 if they were sold in the equivalent size. For me since I don't love Italian Pils its not a great value, for someone who loves that style then they'd have to compare them to the quality of other Italian Pils and their cost. I bought Lawson's Scrag Mountain Pils last week which was $17.99 for a 12 pack of 12 oz cans, its a Czech style Pilsner so its not an apples to apples comparison but I thought it was very well done and a great value (Luppolo is $1.75 more per 16 oz than Scrag Mountain). The Farmhouse Ale is pretty comparable in price to Allagash Saison, currently selling for $10 for a 4 pack or 12 oz bottles at the brewery. Oxbow is $1.49 more which is just over $0.37 per bottle more. Both Allagash and Oxbow's Saison/Farmhouse ale are very good, I prefer Oxbow personally and the value for either is pretty close for me. I'd likely pick up the Oxbow before the Allagash if they were side by side. I can't think of any cheaper Saisons/Farmhouse Ale's that are available to be honest, at least none that are close in quality.

The more complex question is which is a better value between the Scrag Mountain and the Oxbow Farmhouse Pale ale? Clearly two very different styles and the Scrag Mountain is much cheaper. This is why the discussion of price is irrelevant. For someone who likes both Pilsners and Farmhouse Ale's the same then the price matters. For someone who prefers Farmhouse Ale's then the price doesn't matter, the price only matters when compared to other Farmhouse Ale's. Overall I prefer the Farmhouse Ale but the Scrag Mountain is really good and a great value. I still don't think the Farmhouse Ale is priced too high and its value compared to other beers in the same style is high.

 

It's hard to compare style vs style, which is why I was trying to talk about Luppolo in a Lager>Pils>Italian Pils context. With anything, there's objective (i.e. price) versus subjective (personal preference) factors involved in deeming value. I feel very uncomfortable arguing "against" Oxbow here. They are one of my five favorite breweries.

 

I'd be interested in using some metrics here to determine a top 5. I feel like it'd be tempting to include places like Off Color, Russian River, Side Project, but I simply haven't had enough (though everything I've had has been great). For me, a top five would have to be five breweries that I have (a) great access to, (b) have had more experiences with their beer than I can count. I also think that I'd need to be able to look at it objectively. There's something to be said for not liking all their beers (looking at you, Black Light).

For me, in no order: Oxbow, Allagash, Jack's Abby, Hill Farmstead, and Notch.

Give me Native/Wild, Coolship Resurgam, OG Framinghammer, Edward, and The Standard on my last day on Earth and I'll die a happy person. (But also bummed I didn't choose BAFPA, White, House Lager, Abner, and Zwickel).

 

My list is almost identical, swapping out CBC for Jack's. I lived down the street from CBC for several years, so I was able to have ready access to their beer and buffalo chicken tenders.

 

I'd swap CBC for Allagash but you aren't going wrong either way.

 

That's certainly a good list and I believe at least 3 of those would be definitely on my list of top five and the other 2 are serious contenders. Oxbow, Allagash, and Hill Farmstead are the definite. I highly respect Notch but I haven't had enough of their beers to put them on my list. I've had enough Jack's Abby, their taproom/beer hall is one of my favorites. I think the thing that keeps Jack's Abby off of my top 5 is that there are just as many beers that I love as there are beers that I think are just OK. Top 10 maybe but maybe not top 5. I'm only really comfortable saying what I know are my top 3

Oxbow Black Light is an interesting beer. Did you not like the style or the implementation of it? I will say I'm not sure a dark Saison should exist but it was at least interesting...

 

It’s funny you ask because I don’t know whether or not it’s just a style I’m not a fan of. I don’t like black light, but I also didn’t love Ish. When I was at Side Project, I bought one to try their take on the style and wasn’t a huge fan of that. Maybe it’s just a style I don’t enjoy. Probably why when I load up on Oxbow, I typically read the descriptors and buy the bottles that are blonde or in between (Aboreal comes to mind).

As with most things, I’m happy to come across any evidence that may change my mind though.

 

Not a fan of Black Light either.

 

I feel like if you pilsheads got down to Fox Farm more often, they would crack your top five. Their lager and farmhouse game is off the hook.

 

It is certainly on my list—looking forward to going once things look remotely normal.

 

One day I would love to. My dilemma pre-pandemic was that it was almost equidistant to Hill Farmstead from me.

 

I’ll be driving by in a couple weeks and plan on making an order. I’d love to try those lagers on tap, but a bunch of cans will suffice. I hope they release a bottle of some kind too (crosses fingers for a farmhouse). And I hope the hop forward stuff lives up to the hype.

 

I was able to stop at FF last month. I was only able to grab Gather and The Cabin. The Cabin was amazing, a successful exercise in restraint. Gather was meh. At $3.75/can, I would not get Gather again, but I saw the potential of FF's lager program in The Cabin, so I'm looking forward to trying beers like Quiet Life.

 

I hate to use the word subtle but I can't think of another way to describe their haze. Maybe clean. They definitely aren't muddled but they aren't Hill Farmstead either.

What thread is this again?

 

There aren't a ton of examples of dark Saisons, so hard to make an overall judgement on the style. I haven't had Ish and I can't think of any other dark Saison I've ever had before. My takeaway from Black Light was mostly "interesting", I'd love to give it another go to confirm whether it's interesting enough to be compelling. My gut is that like Black IPA's and Blonde Stouts they are interesting, but much like Jurassic Park there are things that can be made that perhaps shouldn't. I would add Brut IPA's, Milkshake IPA's, and sour IPA's to that list but this discussion is about beers that are the opposite color of what they are generally known as rather than beers that just are abominations.

 

Part of it might be the sensory mindf**k. We tend to expect certain flavors from certain visuals and textures. Black Light is a dark beer. This is not to say all dark beers are sweet, but, man, Oxbow's saison yeast is bone dry. So maybe there's something there. IDK. I got a B in my one psychology class.

Then again, there are dark beers -- Consecration from Russian River comes to mind, but I think that's a wild ale (still, not too far off) -- that work well within the umbrella of the style. That beer is awesome.