Ph and other stuff

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Jos3h2r, Feb 15, 2019.

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  1. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    @Jos3h2r . FYI in the link provided by Jack Horzempa, Wards Labs provides an email address in addition to a phone number for inquiries originating from outside the United States.

    Distilled water is easy to come by in the US at grocery stores. Do you have access to it in Panama?
     
    #21 riptorn, Feb 18, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  2. Jos3h2r

    Jos3h2r Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2015 Panama

    i really dont know because i used to buy bottled water at the supermarket when i started then i decided to put a filter for my tap water at home, i will have to check on that.
     
  3. Jos3h2r

    Jos3h2r Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2015 Panama

    This is an option that i like, is just $42 and i just need to know how to send the sample to them, ill send them an email, tx for the idea.
    I just went to a private lab here in panama to make a study of my tap water and its $330, thats insane. not what im looking for.
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Another option is to purchase a kit so that you can test your tap water yourself but at 120 bucks it is not cheap:

    https://www.morebeer.com/products/lamotte-brewlab-basic-water-test-kit-718901.html

    Cheers!
     
  5. Jos3h2r

    Jos3h2r Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2015 Panama

    For your mash ph what do you guys use? A ph meter or ph strips?
     
  6. Jos3h2r

    Jos3h2r Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2015 Panama

    Thanks a lot for taking the time to explained this in such detail, im starting to get all this. I just have one question, how do i know whats the profile for a beer style? I mean, i understand the description of a beer and what am i aiming for when i brew it, but the detail about the water chemestry for an specific beer style, is that in the books too or theres an easier way to get access to it?
    And how do you know after the additions than your hitting the numbers youre suppose to? Just by following the chart? Pitch in and thats it? Dont have to measure that? Hope not but i just wanna be clear about that too.
     
  7. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I’ve looked and haven’t yet found a chart or other resource that describes the optimal target water profile for any/every style of beer, but I tip my hat to Michael Tonsmeire (The Mad Fermentationist) who shares some thoughts on water profiles for styles HERE and HERE.

    I had a question very similar to yours and posted it in another thread (linked here), where @minderbender replied with some excellent input that moved me closer to a better understanding, particularly posts 9 & 13. If you study those posts 9 & 13 along with minderbenders post 19 in this thread, you might find the topic and process will become somewhat clearer......every little bit helps.

    As mentioned by others, Chapter 15 of How To Brew (online version) gives a brief primer on malts and minerals. Palmer covers that subject in depth in the same chapter of the print version of his book.
     
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  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    pH meter. Strips are nearly worthless, even the "good" ones.
     
  9. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    MoreBeer is a (the?) primary retailer for the LaMotte water test kit referenced by @JackHorzempa .
    After additional interwebbing I found this link on the LaMotte website to a John Palmer Water Calculator, which is downloadable as an Excel file. The third tab, named “Scratch” lists profiles for 72 beer styles. It's good to see those profiles all on one sheet.

    There's another Palmer calculator named Palmers-Water-Adj-Gallons-4pt0.xls available from the online version of How To Brew. (near the bottom of the linked page)
    At first glance the files appear to be identical with the exception that the one from Palmers site must have the “Scratch” tab hidden.
    In either file you can click the dropdown box to the right of the Style cell in the Main tab and it will display the “Suggested Water Mineral Ranges for the Style”
    NOTE: Palmers website offers two versions, with the distinction being one for Gallons & °SRM, and another for Liters & °EBC.
    FWIW, I think all the Excel downloads reference the old 2008 styles.

    If one or more of our more knowledgeable members would take a peek at the file and offer additional insight, it would be appreciated.

    BrewCipher has a similar feature whereby one selects the Style on the Recipe tab. Water profile/s are then suggested on the Water tab when using the dropdown box that's located 4 cells below "Water Results" (cell b32 for those of you who turned on the headings). The adjustments suggested there are quite specific, as opposed to the wider ranges in the other Excel files mentioned
    Homebrewers are a picky, opinionated lot and have their favorites.
    I'm liking Brewcipher more and more with each new discovery. It's powerful, comprehensive, doesn't depend on web access once downloaded, and (hooray!) it's free. :slight_smile:


    The suggested profiles in the calculators might or might not prove useful for a novice, but I'm thinking one could use those water adjustments as a starting point and see if it hits the mark. Then tweak the profile to personal preference for mouthfeel, hops characteristics enhancement, yeast flocculation, etc.....likely an improvement over a "hit or miss" approach.
     
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  10. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    The Palmer numbers look reasonable to me. He provides pretty broad ranges for most styles, which accurately reflects the fact that most styles do not call for any particular balance of flavor ions, and it's up to the brewer to choose.

    I just remembered that Martin Brungard used to write (maybe still writes?) articles for Zymurgy magazine describing the water profiles of various brewing regions. An important thing to note is that brewers have long adjusted their water, so the water profile of a given place may not match the water profile of beers brewed there, but it would be an interesting starting point for anyone who wants to dig into the subject.
     
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  11. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Makes sense. Otherwise folks could use my regional profile, without adjustments, for a pale Ale, Stout, Saison, Hefe and so on.....since my "region" is the water distiller.

    Circa 2010 Tonsmiere, referenced earlier, probably found it “interestlng” as well and echoed Brungard's thoughts, (paraphrasing here) > > after replicating the Burton-on-Trent heavy sulfate content (most water reports put it around 800 ppm, nearly a gram per liter). He brewed an English Pale with enough salts in the mash/sparge water (2.9g gypsum, .5g chalk, and 1.8g epsom salt per gallon) to get to that level a couple years back and the results tasted a bit like licking drywall. ( Classic Brewing Water Profiles Rant )
    I'll rely on his experience for that, as I don't remember ever licking drywall.
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Nobody ever remembers licking drywall. It is only when your buddies show you the pictures/video that...:wink:

    Cheers!
     
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  13. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I can't imagine how embarrassing that must have been for you.....:astonished:....:crazy_face:
    If licking drywall was the worst shenanigan that was made known of me, I'd be in good stead.
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I don't hang around with a 'young crowd' that own smart phones so I am 'clean' here.

    One advantage of not being 'with it'!?!:flushed:

    Cheers!
     
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  15. Jos3h2r

    Jos3h2r Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2015 Panama

    Ive seen that before hahahaha wierd indeed. Tx for the tip.

    Btw is there any ph meter you guys recommend? Because like the thermometer, there are many brands and prices, i have a thermoworks now but for ph i have no idea. I can buy it on amazon, morebeer or northern brewer
     
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I use a Milwaukee MW101and have no complaints.
     
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