Philly beer scene compared to NYC beer scene

Actually Brooklyn was producing about 1/3 of the entire National beer supply in the early 1900s along with the other 2/3 in St. Louis and Milwaukee. There were around 90 breweries in Brooklyn.

Yes from the mid-1970's until the mid-90's, the beer scene in Brooklyn was pretty much dead. Sure Brooklyn Brewery started in 1984, but it didn't really take off until 1994 when Garret Oliver joined as Brewmaster as well as in 1996 when they opened up their main location in Williamsburg.

Nowadays the craft beer scene is thriving. Seems like a new craft beer bar opens up every week.

Here's a good documentary on Brooklyn's beer history:

 

Monks certainly was the leader in the U.S. My point was manily that Philly's beer scene prior to Monk's was fairly dismall.

 

No idea about production numbers, but at that time Philly had 700 breweries in the city limits.

 

Here's one I threw together for Center City. There are at least 3 other neighborhoods with equivalent (or shorter) routes for the same number of bars, and there are a good 4-5 (at least) bars I skipped.

 

This is really a good question. For me it comes down to distro/availability. Philly happens to have a ridiculous distro; plenty of things we New Yorkers would love to try are simply old hat in Philly, like Deschutes, RR (although I hear the distro has been cut back significantly recently; just a few cases every couple of months, no?), even Bell's, which is brand new in the city, Port/Lost Abbey (for those of us who can't get to Jersey), etc. And from my understanding, even the top NY breweries (Capt. Lawrence, Sixpoint, Brooklyn, etc.) tend to distribute to Philly anyway, aside from the rare tap-only offerings.

Basically, my point is that if you're interested in variety, Philly is almost definitely the place to be on the east coast. If you want easier access to fantastic beer, I would say NY is more accessible.

That being said, when my wife was out of town last month, I rented a car, drove to Philly after work, shopped at Local 44 and Beer Heaven (scored some rarities like Red Poppy, Hell on Wood, Black Albert, Uncle Jacob, and Angel's Share), and downed a Pliny and a Blind Pig (both firsts for me) at Monk's before driving back home at around 11. It was magic. I then drove 11 hours round trip to Vermont the next day. Good times.

 

There were quite a few brewers making nano-size batches and selling them around town well before Monk's opened, and Home Sweet Homebrew has been a viable business since 1986. The beer scene probably wasn't that much different here than in other places, but interest in, and subsequently the salability, of craft and import ales was certainly greater than in most other places.

 

Ah nice one! I really need to get back to Philly soon. Been too long since my last visit.

 

Very true, I recall going to the old Dock Street brewery in the late 80's, when the pub was in the Four Season's (that was always weird). But for the most part it was kind of hard to find "micros", and impossible if you left CC.

 

Not to get too off topic here, but The Brickskeller in DC had been importing, selling, and promoting Belgian beer long before Monk's opened. Hell, former owner Dave Alexander was inducted into the Knighthood of the Brewers Mastshaff for his role in helping to bring Belgian beer to America. That's certainly not to take anything away from what Tom has done with Monk's Cafe, and the Philly beer scene.

 

I believe you are right!

 

Well now! It seems you love Tired Hands hehe

 

As pointed out before, you are kind of overstating things there. Burp Castle has a few years on them, as far as exclusively Belgian beer bars go. And even prior to that there have been general beer bars in NYC since the 1980s that also featured the whole range of Belgian beers.

NYC was also pretty early to the game as far as brewpubs/microbreweries is concerned- New Amsterdam, Manhattan Brewing, Zip City, etc. Plus, we were one of the early places that Merchant du Vin started distributing their 'boutique' imports.

All that is not to say that we have always had a better beer scene, or even one that could be defined in any particular way- that part is only just starting to come together recently.

Things were just done in that NYC kind of way back then- this place is so large and diverse that whatever you want, anything, we have it. You just have to know where to find it and make the effort to go to where it is.

Overall, I am still jealous of the Philly beer scene, and think it belongs in the discussion of the best beer cities. NYC I'm still not so sure about. But don't take our history from us- we were on the cutting edge back then and it was a great place to be a beer hunter.

 

Lots of discussion about when Philadelphians started drinking Belgian beers (and Monk’s Café). It is my understanding that Tom Peters (of Monks) was one of the folks who introduced Philly folks to Belgian beers in the 80’s. Below is an extract on an interview where this is discussed; T.P. is Tom Peters:

“T.P.: I worked at Bill Curry's Cafe Nola on South Street. On Saturday and Sunday, I was a brunch waiter. I baked Irish soda bread at Downey's. I tended bar briefly at Quincy's Pub. Eventually, I ended up managing Curry's second Copa . . . Copa II, for 11 years on 15th Street.

R.N.: Is that where you started serving the Belgian brews?

T.P.: No, that was in the '80s, still at Cafe Nola. I said I wanted to bring in a case of Chimay Grand Reserve. It was going for $8 for the tall bottles. Bill said, "Nobody's gonna buy it."

R.N.: So, did anybody?

T.P.: The first night, a guy tried it. The guy next to him said, "What's he having? I'll have one of those." Pretty soon it was pop, pop, pop. We sold the case in three hours. The sad part is I didn't save one for myself.”

Cheers!

P.S. My first Belgian beer was when I visited Copa II; the bar that Tom Peters managed prior to opening Monk's Café.

 

there was a place in upstate NY called Holmes and Watsons. Was drinking St Sixtus, Chimay and Duvel there in 80 to 83. They also carried the Lindemans "Lambics" and I believe Hoegaarden and Rodenbach. Trying to remember what other Belgians they had, but I can't.

I know it's not NYC, but............................

 

Interesting. Tom Peters is often cited as instrumental in selling some of the more esoteric Belgian beers like gueuze to American drinkers, and several people have written that traditional gueuze would have disappeared had it not been for his efforts to import it and sell (not just list for sale, but actively cultivate a market) it here in large quantities - which isn't to say he was the only one doing it, but Philly is often cited as ground zero for the importation of Cantillon and similar things in the U.S. I know that Trappists already had considerable visibility in beer circles WAY before 1997; Westy XII has been in the beer-nerd consciousness since the 1970s, if not before.

I'm curious if there is any reliable information regarding what kinds of Belgian beers were being sold at specialty beer bars in the early-mid '90s. The pop culture version of the story is that when Tom visited Belgium and tasted gueuze for the first time, he thought he could sell it in America, and everyone of course thought he was batshit crazy. I've always thought there was at least SOME truth to that, but it would be fun to find out how much.

 

Below is something I posted previously concerning Jean Van Roy (owner/brewer of Cantillon). FWIW, Jean is a big fan of the Philly beer scene.

An interesting interview with Cantillon brewer Jean Van Roy at: http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/meal..._interview_cantillon_brewer_jean_van_roy.html

“MT: Cantillon has a huge following in Philadelphia. People here love your beers.

JVR It is incredible ... I cannot express the feeling here. There is nothing like it, even in Brussels.”

Another interesting Jean Van Roy story:

“Jean Van Roy, whose family runs Brasserie Cantillon in Brussels, made his first visit to the United States for Beer Week. As he was checking into his Center City hotel, the desk clerk noticed the brewery logo on Van Roy's shirt and launched into unsolicited praise for the tiny brewery's unusual, funky gueuze.

A couple of hours at Monk's Café, where his beer was served alongside lambics from 3 Fonteinen and Boon breweries, Cantillon related the story with astonishment. "All of these years, no one in Brussels ever recognized me," he said. "I come to Philadelphia, and they know me. I love this town."

Above from: http://www.philly.com/philly/restau...Week_continues__here_are_some_fave_brews.html

Cheers!

 

I was at Cantillon last month. Asked to speak with Jean. He came and say hello. I told him I'm from Philly and he got all excited, we spoke for a while, he disappeared for a few minutes, then came out and handed me a bottle of Loerik. "On the house", he said. I thanked him and gave him a Yuengling I just happened to have with me.

...then I woke up.

Seriously though, that's another awesome story @JackHorzempa. I just really go deep into the beer scene here recently so thanks for sharing these interviews of Philly's beer history.

 

In Troy? I was only in there once or twice during my time at RPI, (in the late 90's/early 00's) so I don't recall if they had any above average beer selection at that time. One had to get over to Albany to Mahar's for rarer Belgians.

 

I was there a bunch of times in the late 90s while at RPI. Great beer selection, I just wish I could have afforded more of it at the time...

 

I can only offer some personal recollections as far as the Lambic beers go in the NYC area. They were definitely available prior to 1989 or so, because once that Michael Jackson episode of The Beer Hunter aired (featuring Rene Lindeman) I was able to specifically find them without any trouble at all. I wasn't the only one, either- that was a pretty talked-about episode and it really opened a lot of eyes.

Keep in mind, too, that at that time they weren't the sweetened versions like you would find on the shelves today. They also had a Gueuze, as well as the Peche , Kriek and Frambois. The Jean-Xavier Guinard book Lambic also was released around that time, so there was definitely appreciation of they style among the homebrewing/beer enthusiast community.

We also had Liefman's and Boon on the shelves pretty regularly. It was a few years later (1995ish) when I first heard about Drie Fonteinen from a guy in my club who was a serious lambic head. I couldn't believe how much he spent on this bottle one night at the place that hosted our meetings (if I could only see into the future...), but he gladly shared it with me and explained what he knew about the art of blending. Obviously, that was a fairly cool experience and I still remember it to this day.

I am sure Tom Peters definitely played a major role in getting Cantillon, especially, and other Belgian beers introduced to America, but from my vantage point at the time the foundational work had been previously done by Michael Jackson. It does seem that Peters was indeed active in the scene since the 1980s, but that would have been just a part of the zeitgeist of the time, where similar places were opening in other cities simultaneously.