Pilsners!

One of my professors at Doemens Academy (who a also supply yeast for the brewing industry) went on about it one time when he got pissy about the modern uniformity of German lagers.

 

I can see how someone might say this about the mass-produced -- and even the Big 6 Munich -- lagers, but lagers in Franconia are anything but "uniform." Still seriously doubt the veracity of that statement.

 

And yet a good HP Edelhell form the cask is totally worth it, but the big 6 don't really have a good stable of pilseners, they are all good but not great.

 

Yeah, SN Summer Fest -- Summertime is the Goose Island Kölsch.

 

But even Spaten and Paulaner Helles and Oktoberfest have distinctive flavor differences. Malt? Hops? Yeast?

I can understand a statement saying that today's lager yeasts are derivative of the Weiehnstephaner yeast from years ago, but I can't see calling it the same yeast after so many generations.

 

In my experience brewing with 34/70, it is a very clean-finishing yeast that seems to "get out of the way" of the balance that a brewer is trying to achieve between malt and hops, so the claim isn't totally outlandish when talking about the Big 6 or mass-produced lagers/pilsners. I also know that Augustiner, e.g., has its own maltings (and ferments partially in open vessels, pitches its barrels, etc.), which would certainly account for differences in taste there. Dunno so much about Spaten vs. Paulaner vs. HP vs. HB, etc. And, yes, I totally agree that those original strains probably still resemble the original, but can not be exactly the same. Considering the source quoted above, it sounds like a "besserwisserische Herr Prof. Dr." talking about things he knows less about than he thinks; I certainly came across plenty of those during my time studying and working at German universities.

 

if a beer is imported from Germany, how close to the bottling date can you actually receive them? also, is the freshness crusade as critical with pilsners as it is for an IPA? i ask, because i typically drink american pilsners because i've always assumed the german ones were likely old, just based on shipping logistics. thanks

 

I would say more so for the Pilsner as it is such a light, delicate, clean beer. An IPA can have so many esters and characters from yeast to hops to fermentation that it would be more difficult to tell, or seem more gradual, as/when it ages.

 

Try a Spaten and Paulaner Helles side-by-side, there's a definite flavor difference (and H-P tastes very similar to Paulaner). It's more subtle with the Helles, but when Okto season rolls around try the Paulaner and Spaten side-by-side. There's something (again, could be anything from malts to yeast) that definitely separates the two.

Never tried it with the HB or Augustiner Helles and the other 3, but that might have to be my next project.

 

I've pretty much given up on bottled Paulaner here in the U.S. Their Helles and Pils both have a harsh grainy character (I also find this in the HP beers here Stateside, which is odd because in Munich the Hacker-Pschorr beers tasted delicious). If anyone can enlighten me as to why these beers might exhibit such characteristics I'd certainly be grateful.

Anyhow, back to the OP (somewhat): I would not recommend Paulaner Pils as a good representation.

 

I bought Weihenstephan Original and Hefeweizen bottled in March of 2012 this month. I would say this is the exception to the rule though. Find a solid liquor store that you trust and develop a relationship with the owner. A great craft-centric liquor store should be able to tell you when they come in fresh.

 

Not sure if this applies, but there's a very distinct difference in the Ayinger Oktoberfest.

 

disagree, while pilseners should be consumed fresh they are far less dependent on the hops.

 

I think Paulaner Helles reminds me of an American produced helles moreso than the others.

 

That's exactly the character I'm thinking of -- the maltiness comes thru, but there's just something harsh in the background that keeps the beer from being clean.

Is it how the Paulaner Brewing methods take to Pasteurization? Don't know, but as you said -- both beers are delish at the source.

 

Well, let's put it this way -- I've saved a lot of IPAs over the years and consumed them far beyond their "freshness" dates and thought them to be still enjoyable. (mistakenly) Done that with some lighter lagers (Pils, Helles) and haven't had the same experience.

 

Well it depends on the style of ipa. A west coast dry ipa isn't going to taste as good even after a month. I don't feel pilseners deteriorate as quickly, mainly because of the hops, the key to a west coast ipa is the hops, when you lose that the beer is compromised, even in a delicate pils there isn't as much of an emphasis on the hops and the malt and yeast generally hold up enough and the beer doesn't turn into an overly sweet malt bomb. At any rate neither of the styles should be consumed more than say 8 months after they are brewed.

 

The first time you have a stale Pilsner you'll think twice about that -- they may not turn sickly sweet, but they get musty and flat. But yeah, 8 months is pushing a Pilsner. Had year-old IPAs that still keep me interested.

 

I will agree to disagree, unless you are making a specific ipa that will hold up (you cold do the same with a pilsener) then I can see that. But if you had a 8 month old Warsteiner vs an 8 month old pliny the warsteiner would be much closer to its original state.

 

Hmm? And not call it an Imperial Pilsner?