Pilsners!

If you can have a 5% abv ipa brewed with pale malts and have it be drinkable by then why not a lager? In general lagers are less dependent on hops. Yeah some IPAs have a heartier malt bill but you could brew a pilsener with more robust malt and yeast profile, just like you can an ipa.

and the bottom line for me is that the hops are the integral part of an ipa, as soon as they fade, the beer is done, the same isn't present with the pilsener so you have more time then just a month. I say consume both fresh but if people are looking for a specific time a pilsener is going ot have more shelf life than an ipa.

 

This is so true - even if many of the Big Six started using the same yeast 50, 60 or 70 years ago (still doubtful in my mind) they most certainly have different 'house strains' today. Each of the yeasts would have mutated in different ways (whether small, large or in-between) after a few generations.

 

I never said I have. I wouldn't think that would hold up well either, but most IPAs I ever drink are a bit heartier than that.

And to me, the hops that may fade in an older IPA has never bothered me (maybe why I like English IPA too) -- I try it fresh, then I try it a little "aged" for comparison, but I'd never do that with a Pils -- or at least do it and be surprised at being disappointed.

 

Celebration?

 

The bottom line with many of these ipas is that they fade within a month and I think that is what the poster was asking, and in that case I would say pilsners can handle a bit longer of an aging. Your palate might allow for an ipa to go longer, but it isn't in the nature of the style nor is it the brewers intentions for one to drink an ipa any older than a few months. Where pilseners while best fresh don't have the same emphasis because the flavor doesn't change as drastically.

 

Ahh -- so that's what you're getting at -- if the range from fresh to stale is so wide it matters more?

But my point is that with an "aged" IPA the flavors may still be worth contemplating, whether still having a high hop character or not - or whether or not a particular brewer intended it. Pilsner just dies or gets stale tasting.

 

you could argue that ipas go stale, i have had some awful ones that tasted like oxidized barleywines. I think beyond the prime times of freshness it is all personal preference. But an IPAs freshness period is much shorter and much more important than a pilseners.

 

That was the one foremost in my mind. I have a few years worth laid down and I always save one of the previous years' to have alongside the new years' edition.

And whether or not SN intended for me to like it after a year, I find it pretty interesting and tasty.

 

Maybe we need to separate freshness from dinkability, because you may say an IPA is stale, but I could find the flavors intriguing. And since a Pilsner isn't as complex in its character as an IPA (or a Barley Wine), I find it falls off faster and easier in "drinkability."

 

but in regards to the op that started this argument an ipa drops off quicker than a pilsener. He was asking about drinking times and aging times. Obviously you aren't going to age a pilsener, but most people don't age ipas purposely. And ipas don't often taste better aged then fresh. You specifically said that pilseners have less gradual of a drop off but I disagree, I think most people would. I understand your point that you might like an old ipa but then again I guarantee there are people out there who like old, stale pilseners as well.

 

Oh -- that sounds like the challenge to a bet -- let's start another thread to see if we can get any sane person to say they purposely like stale Pilsners! I can't imagine anyone who really likes beer would say yes.

And I stand by that, based on my personal experiences and based on my original comment of complexities in the two styles. But again, we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

 

Generally Radeberger; however,...

There's a joint in NYC called Hospoda, on 73rd between 1st and 2nd. It's in a Czech community center, but on the ground floor is a Czech beer hall/restaurant. They only serve Pilsner Urquell, on tap, but 4 different ways.

Each of the 4 variants has between 0 and 75% (approx) of the carbonation transferred from the beer into the head. At zero, all the carbonation remains in the beer and there is virtually no head/lacing. At 75 the glass is virtually all "head". The zero is dry and bitter, the 75 is sweet.

You've never had PU like this, and if you've been to Prague you probably haven't had it either.

If you get to NYC Hospoda is a must, 6 train uptown to 77th gets you within a couple blocks.

 

Never underestimate the palates here on BA. I've heard people on here say they actually like that honeyish character you get from aged beers that comprise primarily pilsner malt. And tons of people apparently like the sherry-like flavor that comes with oxidation, especially in big beers.

 

Sounds awesome. How did I miss this place? Has it been around long? And which version(s) do you prefer?

My girlfriend during my Bamberg years lived at 503 E 73rd, two blocks away; I must have walked past the building where this is now located a hundred times.

 

There are countless times on here when you know they are reviewing an old bottle yet they like it.

 

Don't forget, I said, "...anyone who really likes beer..."

And we were also talking directly about Pilsner (at least I was), whereas I can see liking those "aged" characteristics in something like an IPA, Imperial Stout, Barley Wine et al. Aged big lagers don't really do it for me though, they start out too clean to begin with, so when I taste something so off I don't like it.

 

Personally I think almost all lagers have a bit of clover honey flavor, fresh or otherwise. It's one of the only flavor nuances I get from lager yeast. In unfiltered versions it's especially there.
To me the older versions have more of a dusty note. Not sure how to describe it except that it's like an antique shop with sugar on the shelf

 

The honey aroma in a Pils is a sure sign of oxidation, and the compound is 2,3 pentanedione, and you don't get that in fresh Pilsners in Germany. One other sign a Pils is going off is that the hop bitterness changes from a delicate Noble hop bitterness to something harsh.

 

The honey character (I believe) HerrB is talking about is much heavier, very sweet and "thick" tasting. The honey character (I believe) you're talking about is soft and light -- many liken it to graham cracker.

You don't get that distinct breadiness? Like fresh-baked bread?

Musty. I believe it's from Acetaldehyde.

 

Some graham crackers have honey in them, no ? You make a good point, though. I've used the honey discriptor before (more in helles than pils) but definitely meant it in the second, softer, sense. I'll have to start using the graham cracker one from now on to be more precise, though.