Pilsners!

Sounds like a bad line. I've never had a diacetyl bomb from Great Lakes, especially compared to Urquell.

 

Was going to post this, but you beat me to it. I got a six pack bottled late May and thought it was delicious. Never had it in the Czech Republic, but this was a very good beer, and many times better than the skunked bottles I had when I first got into craft beer.

 

Well, I found a good sale on Staropramen on my way home today. Still has some of the green bottle curse, but there is something just so right about the sweetish malt character and somewhat citric -- even tart -- character of the hops in balance.

The sweet, bready malt character in the nose and flavor really remind me of the fresh beers I had in Germany.

 

It was at a pretty reputable bar.

 

I may have mentioned this in another thread, but my all time fave Czech Pils available here in the States was draught StaroBrno that I used to get at this little place on Long Island in the mid 90s- very rich, full, bready and grassy. Haven't seen that one in a long while. I liked it even better than P.U in its heyday (well...its heyday for me, at least). Hopefully it will make a comeback; until then I am intrigued enough by all of this 'fresh' P.U. talk to try to get some as soon as I see it.

 

Tried Westheimer pils today, says it is unfiltered. Seemed fresh, was a pretty good option and wasn't too expensive. Also noticed they sell Kaiserdom here now, but that stuff is a rip.

 

i used to see bottles of it a few years ago but it looks like it's stopped

 

Still can't believe the diacetyl doesn't get to you.

 

We're so spoiled in PA with so many great Pillsners being made by the breweries. Prima Pils & Sunshine Pils are fantastic. Heck, even Steg's Summer Pils is pretty good.

 

There are a few good "Pilsners" being made in Wisconsin, not to mention nationwide such as; Sierra Nevada, North Coast, Lagunitas, Summit, but what separates most of them from the European Pilsners is the wide use of 2 row barley malt as the base malt of the recipes, whereas the Euro Pils' use -- well, Pilsner malt.

The use of the Pilsner malt gives the Euro beers (and the US beers that use it) the sweet breadiness many of us like in a good Pils, the use of the 2 row makes the beer more grainy in character -- not a bad thing, and often pretty refreshing, but when I want that bready character it's somewhat disappointing.

To Penn's beers, I've had Troeg's Doppelbock in the past and it had great malt character -- love to try their Pils to see if it's as good. Victory's beers are good, but I just don't get the same flavors from them as I do from a Jever or even a Trumer.

 

I think most beers labeled "export" aren't of the Dortmunder variety, but are simply a stronger lager.
I'm definitely no expert, but the fact that those are synonymous on most style listings probably isn't quite right. Most of the ones I've seen and had aren't of the DAB variety, but are instead closer to Edelstoff.

 

Hopfenunmalz and I were discussing this offline and both found reference to what was called Dortmunder-Export back when. Seems that was the marketing term of the time for German beer exporters around the late 70s (maybe earlier).

We also discovered that, during that same period, Beck's was "exporting" a stronger beer to the US that wasn't the Pilsner it sold in Germany, possibly DAB was doing the same with a stronger Dortmunder style for export -- probably where the styles started to blur.

We all understand the taxation labels a little more in Germany these days, so Export and Dortmunder aren't as mysteriously synonymous.

 

While Prima Pils may not exactly be to your liking, it is brewed with German Pilsner malt (and German & Czech whole flower hops).

As I mentioned previously, Troegs Sunshine Pils is brewed with imported Pilsner malt.

Sly Fox Pikeland Pils: “Gold Medal GABF 2007, 2000 | Bronze Medal, GABF 2003

A Northern German style Pilsner brewed with imported German Pils malt and hopped with German and Czech hops. Light in body, light straw in color and dry.”

If I recall my visit to Stoudt’s Brewery correctly, Stout’s Pils is brewed with imported Pilsner malt.

All of the Pennsylvania Pilsners that I drink are made from imported Pilsner malts.

Cheers!

P.S. As grees20 stated: “We're so spoiled in PA with so many great Pilsners being made by the breweries.”

P.S.S. I have drunk more than my fair share of Jever (over 2 cases in the past year). When I can get it fresh (which can be a real challenge), Jever is indeed the equal of the Pennsylvania Pilsners (which I can always get fresh).

 

If Victory is using all Pilsner malt in the Prima, they aren't mashing it right or using enough -- or the malt just isn't the same as European Pils malt. It just doesn't give off that same character.

Had the Sly Fox once and found it pretty good, but it was before I started focusing closely on the Pilsner character. And a GABF medal is only as good as the competition and judges. I once judged Oktoberfest-Märzen in a home-brew contest with a judge who didn't know what melanoidin was and thought diacetyl was good in an Oktoberfest.

 

“ …or the malt just isn't the same as European Pils malt” Isn’t a German Pilsner malt a European malt?

My primary motivation in making my post was to address your comment of: “what separates most of them from the European Pilsners is the wide use of 2 row barley malt as the base malt of the recipes”. All of the US craft brewed German style Pilsners that I regularly drink are made from imported Pilsner malt.

While Victory Prima Pils seems to be ‘lacking’ to your palate it tastes very good to me.

Cheers!

 

My grocery store sells German Bratwurst, but they're made here in Illinois.

If that is the case, and they're using all Pilsner malt, not just some Pilsner malt to augment a base malt (SN does this with Munich malt on 2 Row in the Summerfest, Great Lakes uses only 2 Row), they ought to have that good, sweet bready character. If the character is lacking (as I've found in almost every US brewed Pilsner I've sampled), there's something awry in the process.

I never said it wasn't good, just not the same as a good European Pilsner. I like SN's Summerfest, I like North Coast's Scrimshaw, I enjoy Summit and Lagunitas Pilsners, but, as I've oft repeated, they just don't capture the same character as the better Euro Pilsners I often drink.

 

I concur that Victory Prima Pils does not have a bready character. Troegs Sunshine Pils provides a lot of bready character.

Victory uses 100% German Pilsner malt in making Prima Pils. I personally would describe the malt character as being ‘soft’. Needless to say but this does not meet your ‘standards’ in what a “good European Pilsner” should taste like. Sunshine Pils does meet this ‘standard’.

I personally think that both Victory Prima Pils and Troegs Sunshine Pils (and other Pennsylvania Pilsners) are “good” German style Pilsners. I personally do not have a ‘standard’ that bready tastes need to be there for it to be ‘authentic’.

To repeat a previous post, you should try Southampton Keller Pils. This year’s version has a nice grainy/bready quality to it.

Cheers!

 

I'll definitely have to try to get my hands on some. As said, I thought their Doppelbock was of a high "standard." { }

That would be a part of the mouthfeel, not flavor, but is good for a well-made European lager.

Your standard of 'authenticity' is too low.

 

Well, I personally do not perceive a bready taste in Jever. I do indeed perceive a bready taste in Sunshine Pils and the lesser degree in Southampton Keller Pils.

I am very much of the opinion that Jever is an ‘authentic’ German pilsner. No need for me to adjust my ‘standard’. You need to open your mind

Cheers!.

 

I love it when people get frustrated that others don't agree with them and resort to some sort of semi-psychological retort -- emoticon or not .

You need to read my notes closer to see that my mind is wide open -- just because I have higher expectations in my styles doesn't mean I don't think the other beers are bad in any way, I made that abundantly clear. But in the meantime, Pilsner, Helles, Dunkel, Oktoberfest, Maibock, & Doppelbock are tops on my list of favorite beers -- when one claims to be one of them, I'm just a little disappointed when it falls short of what I expect.

"Here's your filet sir." "But, that looks like a pork chop." "Oh, but it's just as good as any filet on the market."

I think you'll find most other Pilsner (and other Germanic lager drinkers) feel quite similarly.