Pilsners!

I think he's dissing the people who can only enjoy an over hopped pilsner and have no appreciation for the ones that are more in the normal range of the style.

 

It honestly doesn't sound like hate to me. I agree with Cross that US Pilsners fall short of the best German examples, but that doesn't mean I hate the US attempts. Many are good, solid beers, but there is something about them (process, ingredients, handling) that just doesn't hit the mark like a good, fresh, German Pils (or Dunkel, or Helles, or Oktoberfest, or Maibock, or Doppelbock...) -- and if you read around, there are a lot of us who feel that way.

 

I've been there and agree it's a great old traditional pub. I'll have a whiskey though, I find Guinness a very bland, uninteresting stout and I hate nitro dispense. Actually, if it was my call, I'd skip Ireland altogether. Scotland has just as many old, historic pubs with great atmospheres but with much better drinking options. I've been in some that have 200+ single malts and 5-10 cask ales on handpumps. You'll never get that in Ireland.

 

I've been to Germany and the Czech Republic and agree about Prima Pils. I've never met a craft beer fan who experienced pilsners over there that also thought Prima was a great pils.

 

This well-traveled beer guy, when asked to name his Top Ten US beers, seemed to like it:

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"My choice in this (Pilsener) category was Tuppers' Hop Pocket Pils, from Old Dominion, in the Virginia suburbs of the nation's capital. I could as easily have chosen Prima Pils, from Victory Brewing, of Downingtown. Pennsylvania, but also had them in mind for their Doppelbock, St Victorious."​

 

Well, I never met Michael Jackson Calling it one of his top ten US beers tells us nothing about how he thought it compared to German or Czech pilsners, though.

 

Permit me to tell an old story about Old Dominion Brewery. I have a buddy who lives in Northern Virginia. About 10 or so years ago I went down to visit for a weekend and we took a tour of Old Dominion Brewery. The tour was conducted by the owner: Jerry Bailey. Jerry was a very interesting guy and he had lots of stories to tell while explaining the brewery on the tour. He showed some of the bourbon barrels that they used to barrel age their Stout (this was very early in craft breweries barrel aging). I am a homebrewer so when I saw the barrels all that I could think and say was: “Aren’t you worried about an infection!” Jerry just smiled at me and continued the tour. At one point I mentioned to him that one of my favorite Pilsners was Tupper’s Hop Pocket Pils. He said “Thank you” and then asked what I thought of Victory Prima Pils. I replied that I like that too. He educated me that Ron Barchet (one of the owners/brewers of Victory) used to be a brewer at Old Dominion. The US craft brewing community is always interesting to me.

Cheers!

 

Hmm. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is in his top 10* -- he must be a hack!

(*Circa 2002)

 

The theme of this thread definitely applies to Munich Helles and Hefeweizens as well. I recently found Weihenstephan Original and Hefeweizen both only bottled a month ago. There's some decent examples of American hefeweizens, but none come even close to Weihenstephaner. As far as Munich Helles, that's even worse than pilsners here in the US, especially since there's far fewer being brewed by US brewers.

 

you said american beers in general and no none of the American ones can touch the germans, that doesn't mean i am "hating" on them. It is just an observation I have made in my understanding of the pilsener style.

 

Exactly, it isn't to say that there aren't any good pilseners in the US, but when you try comparing German to American it gets pretty damn skewed to one side.

 

Half of the problems with American "Hefeweizens" are the breweries that call their American Pale Wheat Ales Hefeweizen. They're almost always a complete misnomer to true Bavarian Hefeweizen and do a disservice to the style.

On the other hand, try Sierra Nevada's Kellerweis, if you haven't. It's a damn fine rendition of a Bavarian Weizen.

But this certainly brings up the point of it being easier to hit the character on a Weizen than some of the other styles mentioned -- think the yeast might be key? In all counts too.

 

IMO, weissbier is one of the German styles we do best. A good chunk of small brewpubs have one these days and while few might be spectacular, I'd say most are at least passable. Certainly better than the random stuff occasionally masquerading as pilsner. Even the chain pubs like Ram, BJ's, GB, and Rock Bottom have versions that aren't too far off the mark. They might not be Weihenstephener level, but they're still okay.
In terms of nationally bottled brands, Left Hand Haystack Wheat (ignore the name, it's legit) and SN Kellerwiess are both really good.

On the topic of Prima Pils, I personally think of it like like Fat Tire and DeKoninck. It was clearly inspired by north German pilsners like Jever, but it has a slight spin on the idea. I think it's okay and I can see how someone might really, really like it, but it's not exactly a 1-to-1 comparison with even the driest/hoppiest of continental pilsners.

 

Damn it! Hate making boneheaded car mistakes. But thanks for keeping me right. Serves me right for being a toddler in the late 60s.

 

Spin all you want. When anyone says that no American beer can touch the German counterpart, it's one huge generalization that oozes disrespect for any and all American beers in that category. Just admit it and you'll feel better.

 

Micheal Jackson had a great rating system: *typical of its style and region; **above average; ***worth seeking out; ****world-class. Very context-dependent, and avoids disrespect to a great degree (except, I suppose, if you start counting which countries have the most "world-class" beers); perhaps it applies here as well.

 

Hello. Once again I am left to point out how very little love Avery gets here on Beer Advocate. Of all the people that have mentioned US pilsners no one has mentioned Avery Average Joe Pilsner. That's as good as it gets in a US pilsner in my opinion. The whole German vs US pilsner is a different converstaion though.

 

It is a generalization based on my high interest and experience with the style. I stand by my statement that no American pilsener can touch their German counterparts. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE ARE NOT ANY GOOD AMERICAN PILSENERS, there just exists a gap between the two that is dependent upon brew processes, ideals, and traditions that don't exist in America... yet. It seems like I am disrespecting you and you are taking offense to it, don't. It is my opinion, and judging by your lack of argument about the actual beers and not my "generalization" I am happy with the point I made.

 

Nice to know Xenophobia isn't dead around here.