Poll: Ale or Lager?

See, this is where I ultimately think you're just taking it too seriously. Would you be so perturbed if someone asked you, "Apples or oranges - which do you prefer?" There's nothing ignorant in the question. It's not asking you to implicitly choose between warm or cool weather climes. It's not suggesting the world would be better off with just the one you happen to prefer. It's not celebrating the victory of the apple over the orange, because some percentage more of people happen to prefer it. It's just a basic question, no different than grade school kids ask each other, or random acquaintances ask each other, or whatever. Sure, you might like both equally, or feel they both have their appropriate time and place, and that's all well and good to say. But to suggest even asking the question betrays such prejudice/ignorance/etc just feels like big overreaction.

 

I personally find distinct beer drinking cultures of other countries very interesting.

I always remember my first time sitting in a belgian biercafe in Antwerpen and admiring how the locals shared big bottles of then unkown stuff, served with big, labeled snifters glasses, in a relaxed, stylish, "brown" atmosphere. Long beerlists. Names I had not heard before, like lambic, dubbel......
The same way I remember my first time in a Zoiglstube. Though it is radically different, i cherish the memory of loud native music played by old people, foaming, tall mugs of unfiltered Zoigl being consumed by everyone exclusively, no beerlists, the daughters,mother and grandmother cooking the food together, the father serving the beer........

Why do I mention this? Because I have the distinct hunch that the social context behind different beer cultures is totally lost with some people here, that for some beer is just about the liquid in the glass, therefore a distinction of beer styles by fermentation types works for some, and the negelction of history and context that comes with it is seen as not a big deal.

But when you see beer as being about history, tradition, context, and people, it becomes almost offensive.....

 

Would it make you feel any better if I told you that I considered adding a smiley face to my original post?

I know it's a fun/silly poll. I made a comment and got called out, so I made another. Sorry for any hurt feelings or offense...

 

Ales are the easy choice for me. But I will never deny a good Lager has it's time and place as well. There are great brews to be found in nearly every style, that is what makes beer so amazing.

 

This is an interesting perspective, and I, too, think beer drinking cultures are fascinating, enjoyable, worth of being preserved, etc. That said, the two ideas -- whether you enjoy a particular beer or style more than another, and whether you appreciate experiencing different beer drinkin cultures -- don't seem mutually exclusive.

I'll use an example that I'm better versed in - Mexican food. I grew up in the American Southwest, where we have our own particular style of that cuisine. It's quite different than, say, California (and there's a difference there between north and south), or New Mexico, or Texas. And the cultures are different too. As for me, I don't find it especially offensive when someone says, "I think I enjoy Tex-Mex the most." I mean, sure, in a sort of joking way I'm offended, because I don't agree, but I don't take it to mean that person thinks my cultural context of Mexican food is inferior. I just take it to mean they (for God knows what reason ) enjoy Tex-Mex more.

Maybe this is more of a European thing, where the cultural traditions of certain areas are more firmly entrenched? On the other hand, I seem to recall, for instance, people from Dusseldorf having no problem voicing their preference for Alt over Kolsch, and those from Cologne preferring the reverse. Are we really going to lecture them about not appreciating the historical/cultural backdrop of these brews? Maybe we should -- some of those "preferences" are probably just blind homerism. But surely there are others who just prefer the one drink to the other?

No hurt feelings or offense here, just civilized disagreement. Oh, and [].

 

Spring and Summer would be tough without lagers, but Winter would be hell without ale.

Ale

 

ALE!!!...strange poll...

 

Lol. I grew up near cologne. Trust me, the vast majority of locals there never even thought of trying Alt, and most even never touched Weizen or Pils-just Kölsch for them But also, being in a cologne Brauhaus and being just served Kölsch from the wood, with the waiters running through the masses of people with their Kölschkranze, is an integral part of the culture. And they have THEIR native background. It's not only about experiencing the drink, but knowing where the drink comes from, and knowing the background how it came to be what it is and how the people in its native enviroment experience it and so on. I think the US craft scene of today is too young and to "ungrounded"in traditional practices to get this. It is not about liking one over the other, it is first about understanding how the natives classify and experience their drink.
Compare this to the wine world- wine experts recognize the different systems of classifications of different european wine growing countries(which differ a lot from one another, trust me) and don't impart a particular US classification system on it. Think about the german Prädikat levels- they are a unique logic of classifying and labeling wines, very unlike france, italy, spain,or heck the us does it. But no US wine critic or wine community comes along and says"This Riesling Kabinett Halbtrocken with wild yeasts is a sweet wild wine, based on fermentation process and ripeness of the grapes". But the beer geeks come along and say"This Hefeweizen and this Kölsch, because of being top fermented, are ales". See the difference?

 

I do, and I understand your frustration with the imprecision of such a thing, particularly for someone who clearly cares very much about the history and culture surrounding beer. I think we just read the question differently. I read, "Ale or lager?" as sort of a short-hand, and intentionally imprecise, way of saying, "Hey, generally speaking, what kind of beer do you enjoy more?" I don't read any sociocultural ignorance into the question, because I don't think its aim in the first place is to actually create some sort of detailed rank order of beer styles, blithely ignoring their history, natural differences, etc. Again, I liken it someone asking me if I prefer Chicago-style pizza or Sicilian-style. I, and maybe this is just an American nuance of speech I'm picking up on in @Greywulfken's OP and in the given example, don't hear that as asking, "Hey, could you determine which historical/cultural experience of pizza eating is the best? Chicago's or Sicily's?" It's so much more casual than that, thus I don't take offense.

Fundamentally, we're talking about an easy way to talk about different styles of beer. It's all well and good to wax poetic about the glories of a Cologne Brauhaus, but it's also a pretty inefficient way to ask somebody what sorts of beer they enjoy. You're darn right there's more to it than just enjoying it, and I certainly hope people eventually learn more about particular styles, their histories/traditions, etc. I just don't blame anyone for wanting a quicker and dirtier way of talking about it.

Postscript: While I get your joke about Cologne folks never drinking anything other than kolsch, I wonder why, exactly, that's acceptable, when we all go bonkers here on BA if someone suggests all they drink are IPAs? What's the difference? You're making a passionate argument for appreciating the cultural context of beer, but, via the kolsch example, you also seem to be saying said context permits ignorance. Why should American beer drinkers be held to a different standard?

 

Ales. I'll miss all the great pilsners out there but there's some great kölsches out there to fill that void (looking at you, 32/50)

 

Majority of sources say: Ale=Top Fermenting at warmer temperatures. Lager=Bottom fermenting at colder temperatures. Even the craft brewers I've talked to agree.

Why is this even being discussed at this point?

Also, Pilsners are more like water than beer. If you want a good lager, look out for bocks, and dunkels, and other heavy, malty lagers.

 

Depends on the weather, mood etc.

 

We are talking about different levels and comparing different things here. People on BA are not the mainstream beer consumer in the US, are they? They are experts, advocates,lovers, who treat beer as a hobby, who don't go to a random pub and order a "beer". When someone like that only wants a certain style, it is totally different to me than the average "joe", the average person on the street. And that's really the thing to the culture as well. Kölsch in cologne, like many other local beer styles (not all of course) in germany is not something only celebrated by a small group of experts and enthusiasts- it is part of the local folklore,culture, tradition, of everyday live- you won't find a pub in Köln that does not serve Kölsch. Bankers drink it, Beggars drink it, Punks drink it. Hipsters drink it. You can get it at the small Bratwurst joint at the Partymeile as well as the expensive noble hotel. And yes, there is also there an evolving beer scene with craft afficionados, but that changes nothing about the general connection with "their" beer, because it is "theirs", and that makes it pretty different to US IPA or any other "new world" beer for me..........

 

The perhaps its time for you to physically visit a few places in the US where you can see that there do exist some places some of what you are talking about not seeing in the folks on here. As a few people on this site are quite fond of pointing out, you can't fully appreciate a culture until you've seen it up close and first hand.

 

I have plans to visit WI (truly ubiquitous New Glarus beers) and the PNW (truly ubiquitous west coast-style APAs and IPAs) for these reasons. Anywhere else?

 

I'd say a reasonably candidate would be Philly during Philly Beer week and perhaps some portion of the summer weeks following that. In addition to these:

http://www.visitphilly.com/articles/philadelphia/visit-philly-beer-garden-series-2015/

there are some Belgian style restaurants that you might enjoy and then there's Brauhaus Schmitz where you just might feel right at home. (To name only a few places)

Also if you are with some friends you might well find something like this of interest:

http://www.beerscenemag.com/2012/08/r5-pub-crawl/

(Although the name of the Train line has changed since that was written.) BTW notice that in Der Hauptbahnhaus (30th Street Station) there is a pub mentioned. They have 0 taps devoted to mass market beers. The construction is quite interesting as the long wooden bar is "rescued" from an old hotel and some of the walls were once part of an old church.

Also you can get a sense of what some of the places on the "pub" craw offer by checking out the web site http://www.tjseveryday.com/whats_on_tap.asp which is updated in real time. I see they still have on tap the Rathaus Pils Tannen Zapfle and the Hill Farmstead Mary. it was interesting last Sunday to be able to have them both on tap in a congenial place where we are known to the server and share pictures of little kids and get caught up on the latest additions to families.

But I'm sure you realize, as @Lurchus may someday, things are much more oriented around diversity rather than homogeneity.

 

I voted ale, but I had a super fresh Sierra Nevada Nooner at the brewery in Mills River last Saturday that was eye-opening. Hell, it's been 95%+ here for 3 days and that beer is perfect for hot Summer weather!

 

Diversity is fine. Bamberg is a very diverse beer town, IMO. I have to admit, however, that I am looking for ubiquity -- moreover ubiquity that extends throughout the year. Augusta, GA and environs may be the prettiest place in the world during Masters' Week and thereafter, but beyond that it really ain't much to write home about. I certainly think Philly would be a great destination, but from what I have heard/read/seen, it doesn't really compare to cities that truly live, breathe, and celebrate a regional beer style or styles literally everywhere you go. But it is still at the top of my list (albeit 2nd tier) of U.S. places to visit (along with Boulder/Denver/Ft. Collins and maybe San Diego).

 

Fort Collins and Colorado in general are great fun to visit and eat great food and try tons of new beers.

 

Well a city/region of over 7 million people which is culturally and ethnically diverse is necessarily not going to display the same ubiquity (and homogeneity) one will find in a place like Bend, OR with a population of about 82 thousand or Portland, OR with a population of about 615 thousand, especially when both places were mostly settled by people who started out in the US in the first place. E.g., I don't think you'd find the same ubiquity in Berlin (which is smaller than Philly) that you'd expect in Bamburg. So in a place like Philly it's necessary to take time to learn a bit about "the territory" for the remainder of the year. Which is why the pub craw list is handy since its a small sample of whats on offer year round. But as you say its necessary to pick and choose when and where one spends time and money.