Poll: Ale or Lager?

To point 1, lager yeast are different genetically. The yeast did not mutate, but it was the result of a cross between an ale yeast and a yeast from the new world. Some ale yeasts are unusual, as they are diploid, 2 sets of chromosomes, and the Chico strain is one and works at cold temperatures, it came from the Ballantine beer brewery. Other yeasts are polyploid, more than 2 sets. There are 2 families of lager strains, Saazer and Frohberg. The Saazer (usually Czech) strains can ferment very cold. The Frohberg strain (usually German) ferment a little warmer.

 

OT... this post belongs in the Top Fermented Vs. Bottom Fermented yeast thread! Please move it!

 

For sure, and add the Hybrid styles.

 

Lager all the way. But beer is beer and it is all good.

 

Sex ON pizza nothing like it. Then you eat the pizza and drink the IPL after

 

Basically I was saying that even the thought of having to choose -- or even having some preference -- between lagers and ales strikes me as more than a little absurd. Would you prefer Germany and the Czech Republic brewed more ales? The UK and Belgium more lagers? Any preference is likely to be nothing more than an admission of homerism. I had just assumed the OP was being intentionally silly with the question/poll. Didn't mean any disrespect.

 

"You said death..."
"I meant cake"

 

FALSE!! pizza, because pizza wont judge you when you come home after a huge session then eat from its box for the next hour!!

 

Ale without a doubt.

 

Both. I don't live in an 'or' world. I live in an 'and' world.

 

Lagers are great! However, the best time for a crisp clean Pilsner is in between drinking amazing ales. They're really more of a palate cleanser

 

I think the answers here show two things:
1. the ba community does not really seem to know of the diversity the lager world has to offer, seeing ale as intrinsically more diverse... and more often than not, "crisp pilsner" is mentioned as a high point of lager brewing. Well, this might also be because, as also seen in the craft scene in germany, lagers are dismissed because they are not as fashionable...
2. Most people still cling to the ale-lager dichtonomy and classification. At least there is some debate and thinking about it these days.

 

Nice to have your perspective. But I think you may want to factor two additional things into your ideas. The first is that in the U.S. there is a strong negative reaction against Lagers and even learning more about the range of options. Part of this is the strong association many have, in name only, with the relatively tasteless mass market lagers produced by large brewing organizations (e.g. ABInBev, Miller/Coors). These beers are all around us and still dominate the market place. This alone leads many to reject even trying any other lagers, etc. in addition Ales dominate the craft beer section of the beer market if only because they take less time to produce and so allow quicker build up of positive cash flow for a start up business, which is where most craft beers began. And with so many new breweries starting up here the last few years I don't expect to see much change in the immediate future.

Second is that the lager-ale dichotomy is a convenient one for a variety of purposes, just as IBUs are a convenient way of talking about bitterness. Both, in their own way, they can be helpful for some purposes and misleading for others. But there has been debate about both on here for the 8 years or so I've been around. Indeed, one of the first times I was verbally attacked here by another member was when I began asking questions about the relationship between IBUs and perceived bitterness. So I suggest the debate you see in this thread is more ongoing than it might seem from the outcropping in this thread.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

If I interpret the question correctly, IBUs are a measure of certain chemicals extracted from hops during the brewing process and going into the beer. However, IBUs alone do not measure our perception of bitterness of the liquid. (But that doesn't stop people from equating them.)

For example, if you put the appropriate chemicals in distilled water it takes relatively little for someone with normal range tastebuds to report the bitterness and it typically takes very little in addition for them to report the liquid is more bitter than it was before, i.e., to detect a change.

However, as soon as you bring Malt and/or a few other things into the mix called beer that changes since the Malt, for example "conceals" or "counteracts" the effects of the IBU chemicals. Which is one reason that a stout with relatively high IBU count can taste less bitter to someone than, say an Amber Ale or Pils with a lower IBU count. So effectively comparing IBUs across styles to talk about bitterness is an empty effort.

Another instance of non-linearity is that if one starts dealing with higher IBU counts for a particular liquid one can increase the count of IBUs linearly but the curve for increased bitterness will not be linear. Typically at higher levels it will take many more additional IBUs to make a noticable difference than it does at lower levels.

Finally, there are reasons to believe that a count above 90-100 is totally meaningless since its not clear that humans can detect any changes at all above that level and its also not clear that the liqued (beer) can even absorb the additional chemicals required.

Probably more than you wanted to know....

 

I voted present.

 

I think where you and I often disagree is you seem, by your postings, to think what happens when people drink beer they like to drink here in the USA, and talk about it in a way that they understand things here in the USA, that somehow it affects, dishonors, or has some other impact on Europe. I could honestly give less than a rat's ass what they drink in Czech Republic, or Germany, or anywhere else for that matter. And I mean no disrespect to say that.

I think OP was trying to make a conversation based on commonly used terminology that is easy to understand by every native born American fine beer lover. Including you. I don't suppose when you buy yeast in this country you lecture your LHBS that his packages are marked unfairly to Europeans?

 

I don't think it dishonors anything -- rather it just ignores a lot about global brewing culture. Some of that ignorance is innocent, and some of it is willed. But either way, it does a disservice not to any great brewing nation, but to the drinker, to in any way celebrate it.

 

I agree that there is not really any need to divide beer into two camps...based on yeast or otherwise. However, it is helpful to have a common language so we understand each other. When you differentiate between an ale and stout, I simply don't understand what you are talking about because (using what I think is the most common definition) one is a very broad category and the other is a specific style.
I personally don't believe there is any difference between stout and porter, so at least we agree on that.