Poor Business Sense

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by BenwayPHD, Jun 16, 2015.

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  1. mangoman39

    mangoman39 Initiate (0) Mar 20, 2015 South Carolina

    Having no flights, and not filling growlers on everything are both pet peeves of mine, however, being a businessman myself, I completely understand why brewers would not offer either. Cigar City is my favorite local brewery, as well as my favorite overall. They offer growlers, but generally only on their year round offerings, and a handful of special releases, though none of the major releases. Of course I WISH that I could walk in there this afternoon and get a growler of Caffe Americano, but I completely understand why I can't. But hey, at least I can go down the bar and get a $2 taster or a $5 snifter pour. Flights are a little different for me. As someone who dreams of opening a bottle shop/tap room, I get why flights would not be offered. As discussed previously, glassware cost, cleaning cost, and staff time to fill so many little glasses (though I would think the time it takes to fill four 4 oz glasses wouldn't be that much more than a single 16 oz pour) would be a detractor. On the other hand, flights provide an added margin that would easily make up for those added costs. If a pint normally costs $5, that is approx. 31 cents per oz. At a conservative $6 flight cost, you would be making approx. 38 cents per oz. But then you need to consider whether or not people will drink less while buying flights vs full pours. I would say that in some situations, yes, but I suppose everyone is different. If it's a brewery I haven't been to before, I generally get a flight or two and then depending on time allowed, I'll get a full pour of my favorite from the night. If it's a brewery I go to regularly, I'll usually get a flight that includes some things I haven't had before and then imbibe with my brewery favorites. If it's a bar that offers flights, it all depends on what offerings they have. If there are a lot of different beers that I've been looking forward to trying, I'll usually get a flight or two. If there are less than 4 beers that I am looking forward to, I'll usually go for full pours.
  2. evilcatfish

    evilcatfish Defender (626) May 11, 2012 Missouri

    I know a lot of breweries that don't offer growler fills of all their beers on tap, its just supply and demand. By not allowing growler fills of certain beers more people get to try them and the brewery generally makes more money.

    As far as them selling bottles, what's the difference between them not having it on tap to try and going to a store? I can't go to the bottle shop and say "hey I need to pop one of these and try it before I buy." Whenever I go to a Side Project release I'm buying expensive beer I've never tried
  3. jlsims04

    jlsims04 Devotee (489) Jul 14, 2013 Illinois

    My point exactly. Its not like were talking about some brand new unreviewed brewery here. Its SARA for christ sakes.
  4. Telly13

    Telly13 Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2014 California

    I definitely agree with everyone on the supply/demand, we are forgetting about one major thing and that is how the beer will hold up in that growler. A growler will definitely change how the beer is tasting especially if you hold on to it for longer than 2 days. I believe that breweries are definitely also thinking about how people will rate their beers in house vs growlers and it probably isn't worth it for them. They are afraid of their image by having people judge them based solely on having a growler taste.
  5. 82300sd

    82300sd Initiate (0) Dec 24, 2012 California

    If it's some of the best beer that you've ever had, what is the problem about buying bottles that you haven't tried? They can't do growler fills of every beer on their board because they would run out of beer to pour in house. Flights would make the lines extremely long and everything would slow to a crawl. I cringe whenever I see someone post a picture of a flight of 18 beers from Russian River. You know how much of a pain in the ass that is to pour?
  6. chcfan

    chcfan Zealot (569) Oct 29, 2008 California

    I totally get that it's a hassle and understand why Sante doesn't offer them, though there are some places that have a million taps and no concerns of running out that are doing the customers a disservice by not offering them a way to try several beers in one visit. I like the way Tired Hands offers(ed) beers in different sizes, the smallest one being essentially at taster.

    I actually cringe more when I think about the asshole bartender who all but refused to pour me a sampler at DuClaw in the Inner Harbor. He was just being lazy and they weren't even busy. Kept trying to say "why wouldn't you want a full beer?" and I just gave in out of frustration. We should have stiffed that guy.
    rozzom likes this.
  7. gregoryG

    gregoryG Aspirant (211) Sep 8, 2009 California

    You should have bought the Cellarman!
    chcfan, DCLAguy11, spoonsock and 5 others like this.
  8. theLostWizard

    theLostWizard Initiate (73) Feb 13, 2014 California

    Nothing to see here except for OP's tears. Delete thread, move along.
  9. evilhead

    evilhead Initiate (0) May 13, 2013 California

    LOL @ OP visiting Sante and passing on Cellarman bottles
    sjrodriguez, bugdoc, danielu and 19 others like this.
  10. chrisjws

    chrisjws Champion (873) Dec 3, 2014 California

    That sounds like great business sense. When there's a lot of demand for your product, the best business decisions will not appeal to tickers or people who want to take beer to go. And its pretty obvious who it is given how specific you are with the details. Buy their bottles, they're not cheap, but they're damn good.
    shanrath and rozzom like this.
  11. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Zealot (550) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois

    meow. meow. meow. They obviously are in the middle of discovering they need to upgrade their equipment to grow their capacity and you're on the late side of what they have available in house due to what they are capable of producing and providing for their customer base. i.e. they have a good problem of not being able to sell a bad presentation of their beer. i.e. growlers. Sucks for them because it sucks for you, but grin and bear it, and support them with what they offer if it's so damned good.
  12. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,794) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    Ha! The first flight I will ever get is when they come in half-liter samples :wink:.
    FarmerTed, cavedave, rozzom and 3 others like this.
  13. jtmartino

    jtmartino Disciple (317) Dec 11, 2010 California

    You're still here too? :slight_smile:

    This thread kills me. OP, please don't ever return to Sante. They don't need your business, and we don't need any more entitled noob mouth-breathers taking up space there.
  14. shanrath

    shanrath Initiate (162) Apr 16, 2015 California

    Also, in SARA's case, this is a bit over the top. Read up on Adair a bit—not only does she have a legal background, she's adjusted some of the tasting room practices at Sante to deal with legal concerns. Further, she advocates on behalf of the craft beer community in her position on the California Craft Brewers Association board, so everyone working there is very much so knowledgeable on the subject.

    As for OP's issue, I've seen people come into Sante before and be disappointed with the structure of things—recently I saw someone look at the board of offerings for the day and ask if they had "The West Ashley," despite it not being written any place at all, so I understand there's some confusion over how they work. Everything honestly does seem very fair there, especially given that they almost never put out a beer above 9%, making hanging out and drinking a few half pours with friends completely doable.
    edd562 and chrisjws like this.
  15. walterfredo

    walterfredo Aspirant (210) Nov 22, 2011 California

    SARA sucks. Shitty policies. Shitty beer. Shitty staff. Avoid. What kind of respectable establishment allows dirty stinky dogs to run freely?
    bird22 and jtmartino like this.
  16. walterfredo

    walterfredo Aspirant (210) Nov 22, 2011 California

    But you can't even buy a pint of beer a HF, talk about poor business sense. That business model will never succeed.
    bird22 and jtmartino like this.
  17. jlsims04

    jlsims04 Devotee (489) Jul 14, 2013 Illinois

    animals. also how the hell does goose island expect me to drop 30 on a bcbs variany ive never tasted. total bs i tell you.
    jtmartino likes this.
  18. AptosBeerDrinker

    AptosBeerDrinker Initiate (134) Aug 9, 2011 California

    SARA doesn't even make an Amber Ale. Talk about poor business sense.
    jtmartino, LakerLeith, bird22 and 2 others like this.
  19. benbking

    benbking Aspirant (211) Dec 11, 2009 Rhode Island

    So, FWIW: ISO SARA trading Partner. message me, gracias.
    danielu and LakerLeith like this.
  20. PSU_Mike

    PSU_Mike Champion (840) Sep 6, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Why do some people expect a brewery like SARA or Side Project to fill growlers? First and foremost, what do you think a growler would cost? They are selling bombers @ 20-30 a pop. You'd be looking at $75 for a growler easily. Secondly, these beers that both brew are very, very limited. More often than not, most breweries I know of don't allow growler fills on super limited beers. They want to spread the wealth. As far as samples go, again, these are very limited and highly expensive beers to make. For every 5 samples they give away for free, they are losing out on the sale of a full glass. When Voodoo had their most recent bottle release, the bartenders treated those beers like gold. Not a drop was wasted. Every ounce of those beers was sold whether it be in a glass or in a bottle.

    Honestly, they are just running a smart business imo.
    tommyguz likes this.
  21. sweetcell

    sweetcell Initiate (94) Dec 6, 2013 Maryland

    when you walk into a bottle shop/grocery/etc, you buy bottles without being able to taste them.

    being able to taste a beer before buying it is a nice perk of being at a brewery, but it's just that - a perk. not something you should expect nor demand.
  22. beerassociate

    beerassociate Initiate (0) Apr 21, 2011 New Jersey

    it looks like you have a problem with taking a chance, that's what craft beer is all about my friend
  23. chcfan

    chcfan Zealot (569) Oct 29, 2008 California

    They have a handful of "regular" beers on tap that are priced in line with what you would expect for the style in California. Those wouldn't be too insane for a growler fill price. I'm sure they just don't offer them because the beer will sell out too fast. Early on, they would sometimes just have two or three beers on tap and would even occasionally run out of beer over a weekend. Now, visiting there you're guaranteed to have a variety of options and they almost always have bottles.

    rozzom and shanrath like this.
  24. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,971) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Society Trader

    Indeed, I hear they are about to close up shop due to that exactly.

    BTW just got your username and noticed your avatar. Nice!
    bird22, GreesyFizeek and rozzom like this.
  25. adventurtons

    adventurtons Initiate (0) May 30, 2015 Connecticut

    It's easier to get away with this if you have a high reputation or have a brewery in an awesome scenic location. If you are a new or not highly rated (yet) brewery you need all the exposure you can get to hopefully spread word of mouth.
  26. walterfredo

    walterfredo Aspirant (210) Nov 22, 2011 California

    avatar photo was the beer brewed for, and served at my wedding

    bird22 and cavedave like this.
  27. bird22

    bird22 Disciple (306) Jan 2, 2011 California

    You don't even know......
  28. BenwayPHD

    BenwayPHD Aspirant (289) Sep 4, 2014 California

    Ok. I see that the business model does make sense, and i did buy the bottle. I guess I was just upset because I liked their beer so much, I wanted to take more of it with me.
  29. corbmoster

    corbmoster Initiate (191) Dec 15, 2014 Texas

    I jealous you can take beer home from a brewery.... :slight_frown:
  30. beermeplz

    beermeplz Aspirant (286) Feb 13, 2015 California

    I was so impressed with everything I had there that I would've picked up any bottles they had to take home....unfortunately, the only bottles they had when we were there (Bernice IIRC) was for consumption on-site and we were buzzing too hard already...gotta say I was pretty disappointed about that...need to make my way back there soon.
  31. Greywulfken

    Greywulfken Poo-Bah (4,917) Aug 25, 2010 New York
    Society Trader

    No need to be coy about naming names. Name names... :grinning: SARA. See? :stuck_out_tongue:
  32. Razer

    Razer Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2014 California

    Even though you're a strong, independent advocate who don't need no man, would it have killed you to try a few half-pints (approx $15) and then determine whether you'd like a bottle, or even check the BA ratings and make a decision?

    The taproom is always crowded, line out the door, and you're saying they needed to add flights to drum up business?

    I'm amazed how you managed to stop by an "it" brewery and completely blow the trip. What a trainwreck of a thread.
    #72 Razer, Jun 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
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