Poor people should just stop trading...

There has only been a couple of times I ever put beer to trade on a credit card. This was my realization moment and I haven't done it since. These days I have a cash beer budget for the month - this includes, drinking beer, trading beer and brewing beer plus beer related events. When I'm out I'm out it really does force me to budget my trades appropriately.

 

I often wonder if charging a membership to premium forums (such as the ISO/FT) would deter some people from turning the BA ISO/FT into Cragslist.

 

I don't think its poor people should stop trading, you should only trade when its financially feasable, I'm poorish and I understand when I can make a trade and when I can't , just my .02.

 

I guess you haven't seen those headlines about the European Sovereign-Debt Crisis...

The problem with debt is that a little bit is a great thing and a lot of it is a bad thing. Some people just can't manage debt and equate consumption for leverage.

 

This is true. But I just can't, for the life of me, understand why some people don't get the simple concept of "If I can't afford it, then I shouldn't buy it".

 

Since I personally don't condone illegal activity, I will defer my response to him.

 

I think the problem is the concept of debt blurs the line of what you can and can't afford. I can't afford to buy my house in cash, but I can afford to buy it with debt. Same with beer, someone might not afford to buy a bottle of Dave with cash if it came up on eBay, but they might be able to afford to buy it on credit, use it as an investment (i.e. a ticket to a tasting with crazy beers in the future), and properly ration their spending to make up for it.

 

There's a neurological basis for it. The book "Predictable Irrational" (among others) goes into this phenomenon in depth, but the gist is that if you pay for something with a credit card it "hurts" less than when you pay with cash. Your brain is built to dislike giving things up (including money), but credit bypasses that and makes people significantly more likely to splurge when they can't afford it.

And you can say "But they know better!" Yeah, but exerting conscious will over subconscious desires takes a significant amount of mental energy, which is finite in supply. There are plenty of studies showing this, that you can only resist so many temptations at once (this is why the best way to resist temptation is to avoid it, no one has that much will power). Finally, because being poor is exhausting they're less likely to be able to resist certain temptations, and thus get into worse financial trouble.

TL;DR: Psychology, that's why.

 

I have the money, I just can't send your beer because my dog died, my great-grandma's sister is in the hospital, my computer broke, I lost your shipping info, and I am awaiting the next batch of Zombie Dust to be able to ship.

I think jackasses that do not like to honor commitments should stop trading.

 

Someone's read this:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Total-Money-Makeover-Financial/dp/0785263268

 

what's especially weird to me is that

1) yes, trading beer (particularly trading regularly) is an expensive hobby. you really shouldn't be doing it if you don't have the money, but furthermore...

2) craft beer itself is expensive enough that you're not in the game unless you have the money to make good on a bad trade.

you know? being a regular trader (AKA trading more than i do) costs thousands per year (at least > $1000, if not thousands). but making good on that one last trade probably costs $50~100 tops.

honestly, if you don't have $50 to spare in an emergency (and "i just stole from a friend" = an emergency if you have any integrity at all), your craft beer hobby itself needs to be pretty well planned out. not having $50 for an emergency = you don't have enough money to browse the local beer store and maybe pick up that new $10 bomber you've never had before.

see what i'm saying? it's one thing to not have the money for a trading habit. it's another to not be able to, say, replace a box, or close out your trades when things take a turn for the worse (e.g. your budget was planned out, unforeseen car bullshit puts you back $2,000, time to close out and take a break). if that parenthetical car trouble thing would cause you to start reneging on debts and stealing beer, you didn't have the money to be buying all that much craft beer in the first place.

 

There are lots of people who don't live within their means. It is really sad to see people decide to live like that, not to mention the potential to leave a bunch of debt to your family. It started in the US but has taken hold over much of the world now.

I personally got to the point where I was 15k in debt, although not due to irresponsibility. My job cut shift differential which was 7% for me and cut overtime. I only worked about 2 hours a week of overtime, but it was still income. All told I lost about $700 a month and it happened less than 3 months after I bought a house. I went from sitting in a new house financially stable to being down 15k pretty quickly. What did I do? I manned up and got a second job. I went pretty hard with it and work 2 full time jobs. I am now not only in the positive, but well into in the green.

There are only 3 ways to improve your financial situation and permit more spending. Hard work, education, and more hours. I am doing all of them. Within 3 years I want to make at 1 job what I currently need 2 jobs to make.

I don't want to sound like I am playing myself up or anything, but I did what I had to do. I also know that statistically most (but not all) people who fall on hard times have ways to improve their situation that they just don't want any part of.

 

So your not into shortselling beer?

 

I've never read a stalking or harassment law that would be applicable to following up repeatedly about a debt owed under usual circumstances (I mean, we're not calling the guy at 3am threatening to burn his house down are we?).

Also, theft statutes do apply to illegal goods. I've had enough teenage clients stealing marijuana plants etc. . . getting theft/burglary charges etc. . .

But I'm telling you guys, trading beer is not illegal. My beer trades get shipped to my office in the courthouse. The cops/da's are always psyched to see what I got in the mail.

 

IANAL, but some of the harassing things I've seen suggested from time to time strike me as pushing it. Definitely more than just a few emails/phone calls.

 

Harassment under common and statutory law is usually a willful intent to only/solely harm, vex, annoy. . . rather than something legitimate like here, where I'd argue the primary purpose is to collect a debt/complete a contract/agreement. The bothering aspect of it is ancillary to the primary objective. At least that's my take. Frankly, in about 10 years of practice, I've never seen a harassment case that wasn't a domestic dispute type of situation (you're MY woman, don't leave me! I'll kill you, I love you etc. . . ).

 

Yeah I hear you, I think its more internet bravado/humor more than actual tactics being employed.

 

Because we live in a system/era where sacrifice, hard work and responsibility (people who pay their mortgage for instance) is not rewarded (arguably punished), whereas the person who bought way too much home for their stability/income, gets subsidized with all kinds of modification programs paid for by the responsible types.

Or in another context, we invest way more $$$ in the bottom 10% of students, than the top 10%.

Mediocrity rules!

 

I'm pretty sure that's how all the superpowers throughout history fell out of power (Ancient Greece, Roman Empire, British Empire, Louis XIV, USSR etc. . . ).

We're just next in line.

 

I like the overall spirit of your post, but I think, given the massive chance of inflation approaching, diversifying your economic situation (i.e. not all 'cash') is a more sound approach.

I want to see all those gold commercials on cable tv become about wales instead.

"Diversify your portfolio, invest in wales, we deliver M, Dave, Blabaer to your door, 1% over cost, in a world of economic uncertainty, don't be fooled, invest in wales. . . "