Porter brew

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Hogue2112, Apr 8, 2016.

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  1. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Hello there!

    Been thinking about this recipe - http://beerrecipes.org/showrecipe.php?recipeid=1396#sthash.oEc7rLJ2.dpbs

    • Briess CBW, Porter 1 bag (3.3 lb)
    • Plain Amber DME 1 bag (3 lb)
    • Crystal Malt, 120L ½ lb
    • Roasted Barley ½ lb
    • Chocolate Malt ¼ lb
    • Honey Malt ¼ lb
    • Perle leaf 1 oz bittering hops
    • Fuggle leaf 1 oz flavoring hops
    • Burton Ale Yeast WLP (Liquid)
    • Irish Moss ¼ tsp


    Steep grains at 155 for 60 minutes.
    •Mash out at 170 degrees for 15 minutes.
    •Pull grain, pour wort in to pot and bring to boil for 15 minutes.
    •Remove from heat and add Briess CBW Porter and Amber DME.
    •After boil resumes add 1 oz of Perle and hold for 45 minutes.
    •Add 1 oz of Fuggle and ¼ tsp of Irish Moss and hold for 15 minutes.
    •Remove pot from heat and add small jar of honey.
    •To cool wort add 3 gallons of ice water (just starting to freeze) to carboy.
    •Add hot wort to carboy through a strainer.
    •Add 1 more gallon of cold water to carboy to make 5 gallons total.
    •Temp of wort should be ~75 degrees.
    •Take original specific gravity reading
    •Pour Burton Ale yeast in to wort
    •Place stopper and air lock on to fermenter.
    •After ~5days or initial fermentation has subsided rack to secondary.
    •After 7-10 days in secondary take final gravity reading and
    •Rack to bottling carboy if ready.

    I have a few questions -

    I have yet to build a Mash Tun, and have only brewed extracts and/or bagged specialties etc.

    What exactly are they referring to here by "Mash out"?

    Could I get away with just bagging everything (Crystal Malt 120L ½ lb, Roasted Barley ½ lb, Chocolate Malt ¼ lb, Honey Malt ¼ lb) and steeping in my brew pot, ramping up heat to 170 and hold for that 15ish minutes, pull out and roll with it? Adding DME and Briess CBW as indicated?

    I also will start brew around 5 gallons, allowing for evaporation and add water after to gravity. I have built a wort chiller, so no need for that ice cold water addition.

    Thanks in advance for your insight!
     
  2. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    My biggest concern with the recipe is the use of dark malt extracts. Attenuation is usually a problem. A recipe is almost always better using pale malt extract and getting your color and roast flavors from steeped specialty grains.

    Ignore the 170 mash out. Not needed.

    The instruction to pitch yeast at 75 degrees is not a good idea. More like 63-65 for Burton ale yeast.

    Most people would skip transferring to secondary and just keep the beer in primary for 2 to 4 weeks.
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That process would work but I would suggest that you nix the Honey Malt since it is reportedly not a malt that can be steeped (it would add starch to the wort).

    Cheers!
     
    LuskusDelph likes this.
  4. warchez

    warchez Zealot (545) Oct 19, 2004 Massachusetts

    In this example, the term 'Mash Out' is being used as code to identify themselves as clueless.
    Further verified already as the use of dark malts and dark extracts.
     
    Hogue2112 likes this.
  5. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    I have been reading a lot about skiping the secondary, what is your opinion on not using a secondary? Do you only do it in some situations? I have read (and regurgitating now) that given the large surface area of exposure to the beer, the settled particles can cause lots of unwanted flavors, etc.

    Also, can you expound on that attenuation bit? Or link me to something? :slight_smile:
     
  6. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    You agree then on using a pale malt then? Same amount? What about the DME they say to use?
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If you intend to not use dark(er) malt extracts and solely use Pale LME then you will need to 'bump up' the specialty malt amounts. The existing recipe is predicted upon getting some dark malt contributions from the malt extracts (Porter/Amber).

    Cheers!
     
    LuskusDelph likes this.
  8. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    I only use secondary for lagers and high abv beers like barleywines. Everything else is 3 weeks in primary and then to keg or bottle. I don't see any benefits from secondary for moderate abv ales that outweigh potential oxygen exposure from secondary. The alleged concern with extended primary is what is known as " autolysis". Many now believe that this is not a concern for homebrewers, or is only a concern after very extended periods of time.

    I'm on my phone now, so no ability to research dark malt extracts and attenuation. Though I'm sure someone else can chime in on the topic.

    You do have to add more dark malted grains when steeping to make up for sub with pale malt extract. My last porter, adjusted for a five gallon batch, had 2 lb pale chocolate, .5 lb chocolate wheat, and 1 lb C90 along with brown malt. It was not a particularly dark Porter.
     
    #8 scottakelly, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
    Hogue2112 likes this.
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    From the linked recipe:

    Beer Profile

    Original Gravity: 1.086
    Final Gravity: 1.012
    Alcohol by Vol: 9.69%
    Recipe Type: partial mash
    Yield: 5.00 Gallons

    If the homebrewer achieved the listed final gravity of 1.012 that would seem to indicate that the malt extracts are pretty darn fermentable (i.e., high attenuation was achieved). I wonder whether they really achieved this value.

    Cheers!
     
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  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    With those fermentables and that yeast strain, there is not a snowball's chance in hell of getting anywhere near 86% apparent attenuation.
     
    scottakelly likes this.
  11. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Could you gents advise on some changes to the recipe to increase odds of that final gravity/assure that it is a pretty full bodied porter?
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Well, at this point I am not believing the posted value of 1.012 for the final gravity.

    I am pretty darn sure that if you brewed the recipe as it you will achieve "full bodied porter".

    The debate about using non-Pale Malt Extracts is that what dark malts were used to produce those malt extracts is sometimes an unknown. For the Briess Porter malt extract the ingredients are:

    “81% Base Malt

    8% Victory® Malt

    5% Caramel Malt 80L

    4% Chocolate Malt

    2% Carapils® Malt”

    http://brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_CBWPorterLME.pdf

    The Amber malt extract is also a combination of some sort.

    Some homebrewers have a preference to brew with Pale Malt extract and then they select the specialty malts to achieve a specific flavor and body profile.

    I would be willing to bet that the recipe as is would make a fine Porter.

    If you want to be in ‘more control’ you can go the Pale Malt Extract and specialty malt route if brewing with non-Pale Malt Extract is personally non-ideal to you.

    Cheers!
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    My change would be delete the link to that recipe and start over. It would be full bodied without any changes though. It just wouldn't attenuate as much.
     
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  14. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    How could I increase my attenuation?
     
  15. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    I think I am going to follow the recipe pretty closely and report back/document. Given my experience level I do not feel comfortable with making an educated decision on my own to achieve the "more control" portion and selecting my specialties correctly.

    I just would like to have a higher octane porter! :wink:
     
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    In my opinion this recipe will 'achieve' here.

    A few non-specifically requested suggestions:
    • Practice proper sanitation throughout the brewing process
    • Make a yeast starter since this is a high gravity beer
    • Maintain a proper fermentation temperature. I would suggest 68 degrees F
    Good luck with your Porter!!

    Cheers!
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    - more attenuative yeast strain
    - more fermentable wort (a greater ratio of base malts/extracts to specialty malts/extracts)

    But I would not aim for 86% apparent attenuation for any porter. That would be a very dry beer.
     
  18. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio


    Thanks much!
     
  19. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    if you're still open to an alternative recipe, I did this with most of your proposed ingredients. Looks like you're wanting a beefed up English porter. IBUs are estimates since i dont know your aa. Follow the instructions above as modified by BA user comments re mash out, etc.

    7.5 lb Light DME
    1 lb chocolate malt
    1 lb C120
    .5 lb roast barley

    1 oz Perle 60
    1 oz Fuggle 15

    Burton ale yeast

    OG 1.074, FG 1.021, 7.03% ABV, 32 IBU, 50 SRM
     
  20. RogelioRodriguez

    RogelioRodriguez Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2015 California

    Toss in half pound black patent malt. give it some bitter roast :slight_smile:
     
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