Pre first batch...

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Barhoppin13, Aug 16, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    Let me start by saying I've been lurking on this forum and other homebrew forums for a while. I've done lots of reading and have watched dozens of videos

    I am about to purchase my first homebrew setup and I'm sure I'll be brewing this for for the foreseeable future.
    I live in a condo and the Association has some BS rules don't allow gas burners or storage of propane on premises so I will be using my electric store.
    I want to purchase a setup that will allow me to brew 5 or 10 gallon batches but use them to start with smaller 1-2.5 gallon batch sizes. (starting with extract and moving to all grain as I become comfortable).
    My main questions...
    Are there any reasons why I shouldn't brew 1 or 2.5 gallon batches on my electric stove while using brewing equipment geared towards 5-10gallon batches? (Pots, mash tun, fermenters)
    Are there any reasons why fermenting 1-2.5 gallon batches in a 5 gallon carboy or bucket would be negative? ( other than the obvious waste of space?
    I'd prefer to do full boil when I head to all grain but until I have a heating source capable of doing 5-10 gallons I'm going to brew multiple smaller batches and experiment with different styles, grains, hops, and yeasts.

    Any input would be GREATLY appreciated!
    Cheers
     
    #1 Barhoppin13, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  2. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    As long as your stove can boil 5 gallons (though a full-boil would actually require your stove to boil more than 5 gallons), there is no reason to use smaller equipment. The only thing I could think of is that a 10 gallon cooler mash-tun may not hold heat quite as well with so much dead-space( when doing 1 and 2.5 gallon batches), but I'm not sure of the physics behind heat loss.

    Fermentor-wise, it may not be the best policy to do 1 or 2.5 gallon batches in a 5 gallon carboy/bucket, though 2-3 week primary fermentation may be fine with 2.5 gallons.

    That said, full-boil 10 gallon batches are probably a little much for an electric stove.
     
    #2 JohnSnowNW, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  3. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    There is at least one unknown variable here that can be important toward answering your questions. If you get a boil pot with a large diameter, it may straddle two burners on your stove and help to get a large batch up to a boil. However, if you get a pot this size and do a small batch, the liquid would be more shallow, and I think this would lead to easier scorching of the sugar.

    There are probably other considerations that would create negatives for you to brew small batches in large batch equipment, and other posters may chime in with them. But the best way to find out is for you to try brewing a small batch with a recipe (a Pale Ale, for example) that uses relatively inexpensive ingredients, and then see what happens. Watch every step of the boil closely and keep very detailed notes to properly evaluate this 'experiment.' Good luck.
     
  4. ThomP

    ThomP Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2007 Texas

    If starting with Extract, you can do full 5 gallon batches, just boil less volume and top off to the desired volume. I started using extract and only boiling 2-3 gallons and then topping off. Good practice to get a feel for all the steps before purchasing mash tun and other more specialized equipment.

    I too at one point had crappy Apartment rules, they suck, don't even let you go 10' away from structure anymore.
     
  5. redmaw

    redmaw Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2013 Pennsylvania

    I recently transitioned away from my electric stove, which was not capable of boiling 5 gallons. I will point out that maintaining a boil with 3 gallons in a pot large enough to boil 5+ gallons isn't any easier the boiling the larger quantity of water (it will take less time to start the boil though). My stove could bring 5 gallons to a boil in a 7 gallon pot, but once the lid was off, it couldn't maintain a boil. So if you have a pot large enough 5+ gallons, and the stove can handle it, there isn't much advantage to doing smaller batches and if the stove can't handle it you will likely need a smaller pot.
     
  6. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    I will (in the next 2-3yrs) move into a home where I will be able to brew in 10 gallon batch sizes.
    The thought behind my OP is to purchase with that foresight in mind and not have to reinvest when that time comes.

    My plan in the beginning would be to brew small batches of IPAs and IIPAs with different grain and hop builds/profiles, as well as dig into some porters and stouts, my eventual plan is to keg and keep two or three beers on tap at home.

    (I will probably go the 1 gallon mini keg route while in my condo)

    What do you guys think I could get away with purchasing now (knowing I'm cooking all grain full boil on an electric stove top) that I wouldn't have to repurchase down the road to suit my needs?
    Or am I just expecting to stretch this too much?
     
  7. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    Is there something I am missing or just don't understand? Boiling one gallon of water in a 5 gallon pot is just the same as boiling one gallon in a 1.5 gallon pot isn't it?
    I understand what @JohnSnowNW mentioned about a 10 gallon mash tun maybe being inefficient keeping heat but that's off burner...
     
    #7 Barhoppin13, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  8. redmaw

    redmaw Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2013 Pennsylvania

    My point is boiling (maintaining the boil, not reaching it) 3 gallons (for a 2.5 gallon batch for example) in a 7 gallon pot takes the same amount of output (or near enough) from the stove as 6 gallons (for a 5 gallon batch). So you aren't gaining anything there unless you are using a pot which won't work when you try to step up to larger batches. The heat input required to maintain a boil will equal the cooling to ambient by the pot, which doesn't really depend on the amount of water in the pot. Most of the cooling at near boiling temperatures occurs due to evaporation at the surface of the water, which varies by diameter of the pot, not water level. That said it definitely takes longer to bring the larger quantity of water to a boil. I only mention this because my stove could not maintain a boil with my 7 gallon pot with only 3 or 4 gallons in it (though it did boil 2.5 gallons in a smaller pot). By the way, 7 gallons is really the absolute minimum for a 5 gallon batch (most around here will recommend bigger), because first you boil off about 1 gallon during brewing so you start with 6 or more gallons, and second you can't fill the pot to the brim, and then try to boil it, that will lead to a mess.
     
  9. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    @redmaw
    That's why I planned on a 10gal pot for 5 gallon brews
    Now I do get what you saying referring to boiling of water.

    Looks like I'm just going to stick with a simple pot and concentrate on just putting together a smaller setup. It'll be a lot cheaper and allow for more of the things I want like a mini fridge for fermentation and a keg set up for my beer fridge!
     
  10. DPA-35

    DPA-35 Initiate (0) Jun 21, 2014

    I do 3 gallon brews. I have 2 3gal carboys. I do plan on moving to 5gal soon. I also do all grain so don't feel like you have to go the extract route, although I have heard that extract is just as good. I've just never tried it. It yields about 28 beers.
     
  11. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    I've decided to start with an extract before/during the time I build my mash tun. I'd love to go 2.5 or 3gallon but the "starter" options are considerably fewer. It also seems I will still have the issue of boiling 4-5 gallons of water on an electric stove...if I could simply just have a propane burner this would be a no brainer!
    I'm going into this taking baby steps haha.
     
  12. tootallsale

    tootallsale Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2014 Michigan

    You might look into a drop in style electric element that hangs on to the pot, I use one for my HL and sparg then boil with gas outside. It does well boiling the beer which i enjoyed doing in the basement but the wife dosen't like the smell of boiling hops.
     
  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    If you get a smallish boil pot you'll find it will come in handy when you upgrade later to a larger one. The small can then be used to heat sparge water, etc. So it is a good choice for now and as an investment for later.
     
  14. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    Thanks @Mothergoose03
    That's the kind of feedback I need pre purchase...
     
  15. tootallsale

    tootallsale Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2014 Michigan

    Barhoppin, I just disolved my 15 gal system to focus on smaller batches 3-5 gal, Keeps the tap handles rotating quicker for me. use a good brewing software and size don't matter you can scale any beer/batch. I like the three gall batches (initially 4 gallons but final to keg is 3) because a lot of times I can pitch a single tube/smack pack of yeast without having to do a starter. there are good deals on 3 gal kegs also out there they take up less space in the fridge as well and travel nicely.
     
  16. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    my standard noob harping post...

    fermentation temperature control. below 70F ambient, but 62 is my preference
    yeast pitching temperature control. below 70F
    fast cooling via wort chiller. pre-chiller needed if your tap water is warm
    sanitation
    full boils
    KISS methodology and recipe formulation

    everything else is secondary. if you haven't addressed all of these issues, you are less than ready to go.
     
  17. Barhoppin13

    Barhoppin13 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2013 Florida

    @AlCaponeJunior
    I have addressed it all. Living in southwest Florda it gets hot and stays hot.

    Mini fridge with temp control for fermentation
    I plan to setup a counter flow with a post wort chiller for fast cooling. See link!
    (forward to the 1:15 mark)
    I assume with the counter flow pre-wort chiller post cooling setup pitching my yeast below 70 shouldn't be an issue.
    StarSan for cleaning
    I'm planning on full boils. I'll head to all grain after get a few extract, partial, or biab batches under my belt.
    I'm going to purchase Beersmith or iBrew to help KISS. I plan to buy brew kits in the beginning. I've found a few websites that have huge 1 and 3 gallon all grain brew kit selections.

    I'm currently stuck trying to figure out what size mash tun and brew pot that would work best for me.
    I'm looking at a 2.5 gallon brew pot and 3-5 gallon round cooler for my mash tun (worried about going too big on the mash tun and loosing efficiency but don't want to go too small so I can't do any IIPAs or RIS.
     
    #18 Barhoppin13, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  18. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Two things I can think of when I went from small batches to larger (only been doing since beginning of year):
    1. I found I had an issue bringing 5 gallons to boil on a stove-top, which led me to less-than-ideal hot breaks doing all-grain.
    2. I have fermented 3 gallon batches in a 6 gallon bucket, without noticing a loss in flavor. However, there were times the fermentation wasn't obvious (was guessing just not enough pressure built up to bubble the air lock, but the FG ended up right).
     
  19. DPA-35

    DPA-35 Initiate (0) Jun 21, 2014

    I have a 5gal cooler mash tun with false bottom, 4gal brew kettle, and 2 3gal carboys less than $200. I've only been brewing since January, but once I figured it out my setup is pretty efficient.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.