Predict the Outcome

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Dec 16, 2020.

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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Today I decided to do something I rarely do, i.e. take advice directly from a brewing magazine article without asking around or doing any real research. It was an old article about chocolate in brewing, which recommended adding dark, high cacao content chocolate directly to the boil. I added 4 ounces of 100% cacao to a 5.1 gallon batch. I knew there was going to be some fat/oils floating in/on the wort, and there sure was. I skimmed/strained it as best I could, but there was still a pretty good layer of it in the fermenter.

    I hardly ever use dry yeast, but I sprinkled a single pack of US-05. Astute readers might guess where this is going. The yeast didn't seem to "cream up" the way it should, and my guess is that the fats/oils were interfering. So I gently stirred the yeast into the wort and hoped for the best.

    So, prediction time:

    1) Who thinks fermentation will be sluggish and/or require a re-pitch? Who thinks it will be a pretty normal fermentation?
    2) Who thinks the fats/oils will result in a soap bomb?

    FWIW, this is a Porter recipe intended to land around 5.4% ABV.
     
    #1 VikeMan, Dec 16, 2020
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  2. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    1) Slow to start then a normal fermentation, no repitch. Slow to start due to pitching dry yeast directly on the wort, nothing to do with the oil content.

    2) No soap bomb, though are you referring to the flavor or texture?
     
    #2 OddNotion, Dec 16, 2020
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  3. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    1) Normal fermentation.
    2) Not sure what you mean by soap bomb. I don't think you'll even have a big problem with foam or head retention... but I'm not exactly sure, I could be wrong.

    Overall I bet it all turns out pretty good actually.
     
    #3 dmtaylor, Dec 16, 2020
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  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Flavor, from fatty acid breakdown.
     
    #4 VikeMan, Dec 16, 2020
  5. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    1) normal
    2) unknown
     
    #5 Naugled, Dec 17, 2020
  6. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I don't know what unflavored soap tastes like. I believe when I describe soapy flavors it's probably more like roses and carnations. Kind of like when people taste pumpernickel bread and then as a result they think rye beers are "spicy", which they are not at all.
     
    #6 dmtaylor, Dec 17, 2020
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  7. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    1. normal
    2. not unless you sit on it for too long or let it get too warm
     
    #7 MrOH, Dec 17, 2020
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  8. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    1. Mostly normal, maybe less vigorous for slightly longer than usual.

    2. Probably not. The fatty acids probably won't break down too much in the lowish pH of a fermentation. You might get some emulsification which could actually benefit body and head retention.
     
    #8 skivtjerry, Dec 17, 2020
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  9. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Or the emulsion could break due to the presence of alcohol and destroy the foam. Hard to predict.
     
    #9 skivtjerry, Dec 17, 2020
  10. Beer_Life

    Beer_Life Initiate (0) Dec 5, 2020 New York

    I'm going to do the boring thing and agree with everyone that the fermentation should go fine.

    I'll also say that if the beer is handled properly, stored cold, etc. I don't think the additional fat is going to end up causing problems. I'm less confident than I am about the fermentation, but I don't think what little fat remains should go rancid very quickly. I could see it affecting head formation/retention though.
     
    #10 Beer_Life, Dec 17, 2020
  11. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    If anything, the alcohol should help hold the emulsion, since it has a water-like head and a fat-like tail (or vice-versa, I can't remember). Dextrins should help support it as well.
     
    #11 MrOH, Dec 17, 2020
  12. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    RDWHAHB :wink:
     
    #12 Prep8611, Dec 17, 2020
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  13. skleice

    skleice Maven (1,271) Aug 6, 2015 Connecticut

    My vote:.

    1. Sluggish, but successful fermentation.

    2. Bitter coca flavor

    3. Poor head retention

    Will this be cold crashed?
     
    #13 skleice, Dec 17, 2020
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  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Probably not in the fermenter, but effectively yes, in the serving keg.
     
    #14 VikeMan, Dec 17, 2020
  15. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    1. Perhaps sluggish, but fermentation will be acceptable.
    2. Flavor will be fine.

    How’s that for vague predictions? I applaud your apparently freewheeling approach to this beer. Sometimes we homebrewers seems to take it all so seriously anymore. It’s nice to see someone just going for it! And while I suspect you are not worrying, I’ll repeat my favorite homebrewing mantra, RDWHAHB. Cheers!
     
    #15 utahbeerdude, Dec 17, 2020
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  16. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Was the cacao powder or bars? Either way, I'm following the consensus.
    Sluggish in both start and finish but not so much as to warrant a re-pitch
    No soap bomb.

    Might end up being the best 5.1 gallon batch with 4 oz 100% cacao added to the boil that you've ever brewed.
     
    #16 riptorn, Dec 17, 2020
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  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It was a bar.
     
    #17 VikeMan, Dec 17, 2020
  18. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm familiar with the idea of soapy off flavors coming from fatty acid break down in trub, I don't think I have ever seen it explicitly linked to having high amounts of fatty acid in trub, although you would think that would make a problem worse. If you don't let the beer sit on trub for too long, maybe not an issue? It will be interesting to learn, though, because I don't think I have ever seen a definitive causal agent for soapy off-flavors, like do X and you WILL have soapy off flavors.
     
    #18 pweis909, Dec 17, 2020
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  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I can tell you that I once got obvious soapy flavor in an experimental beer that used a lot of crushed coriander seed. And it turns out that coriander seeds are rich in fatty acids. Fermenter times and temps were nothing noteworthy. n = 1
     
    #19 VikeMan, Dec 17, 2020
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  20. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    It will turn out fine. Because 05 always works out.
    Even if you do something crazy like sprinkling the yeast on to the wort without rehydrating first.

    I do think it will turn out ok. That's my guess.
    Cheers
     
    #20 billandsuz, Dec 17, 2020
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