Primary Temperature

Just to add to this... most (brewer's) yeast strains don't make phenols. The Belgian strains and Hefe strains are notable exceptions.

 

When I do a D-rest, I start ramping up when there are a few gravity points left to go.

 

Yes, it's generally accepted to ramp up when you are only a few points from FG, and to hold between 68-70° for 48hrs.

 

I have never used that Wyeast strain and was just relating what some of the guys at my LHBS were telling me. Good to know it's not really an issue.

 

Plenty of folks have discussed that the Dupont yeast strain (e.g., Wyeast 3724) can stall. You can read in the post by @corbmoster above.

There is even verbiage on the Wyeast website discussing this aspect of Wyeast 3724:

"This strain is the classic farmhouse ale yeast. A traditional yeast that is spicy with complex aromatics, including bubble gum. It is very tart and dry on the palate with a mild fruitiness. Expect a crisp, mildly acidic finish that will benefit from elevated fermentation temperatures. This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 S.G. Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures, at least 90°F (32°C), or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation."

Cheers!

 

That's a contender for the most misleading thing ever published on a yeast manufacturer's web site. If I had a nickel for every post from someone who is avoiding trying 3724 because of that quote, I'd have a lot of nickels. But keep quoting it, with your bold font added. Here, watch this...

Pitch rate
Oxygenation
Nutrition

Hey, this bold font thing is fun!

 

Yes, the three <b>'s...to success!

 

If you choose to brew using the Dupont yeast strain below are some words of wisdom courtesy of Drew Beechum.

Drew Beechum is somebody you can trust.

Yeah, bold is indeed fun!

Cheers!

“Avoiding the Saison "Stall"

Look at White Labs site or read the experiences of a 1001 homebrewers and you'll see everyone complains about the "big" Saison strains - Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison and WLP565 Belgian Saison I. "It started like gangbusters, chugged along like mad making my airlock burble and then it stopped, so I took a gravity sample only to discover that my gravity still read 1.030! What can I do? grumble, grumble, stupid yeast, grumble"

Most of the advice out there goes along the lines of "pitch big, let the wort get hot and then just wait it out or pitch WLP001, US-05, etc". Wait it out because hey, if you wait a couple of weeks, the yeast come back with a vigor and drive to doneness. This stall and it's infuriating nature is what has driven so many homebrewers to rely on Wyeast 3711 French Saison, which is a reliable monster attenuator. My problem, I don't like it as much when trying to produce a classic Saison profile.

I stumbled on what I think is the magic trick to prevent the "Dupont" stall and confirmed it with much brainier folks than I who work with intimately with the strains - those main Saison strains are backpressure sensitive. The increased pressure and CO2 levels created by an airlock or blowoff tube are possibly the culprits causing the stallout. At least that's the speculation I get from the PhD types who work with the strains all the time! How did I discover this by accident? I've been fermenting "open" for years in my primaries and noticed "wait a tick, I don't stall when using those critters, why?" All I do for primary is slap a piece of sanitized foil on top of the carboy or keg and wait for primary fermentation to subside. As long as the yeast are active, they'll keep bad things at bay and the foil prevents dust and bugs from raiding the fermenter.

In other words, follow the fermentation schedule above, eschew the airlock and use foil to avoid stalling out! (for most values of avoiding stall - this process truly works for me when I do it, so...)”.

 

Though fermentation is not finished yet on my 3724 batch I can honestly say I have no regrets about using it. The hydrometer sample I took was was really good and I'm looking forward to trying it after it is finished. I'm still getting airlock activity, so I'll just be patient in the mean time and drink my other saisons .

That having been said, my situation (as anecdotal as it is) was very classical to the wyeast description. Fermentation started very quickly within a few hours. After a week passed, it was stuck at 1.03x The dan star belle batch had reduced the gravity to 1.002 My original saison several weeks ago with 3711 also did complete fermentation within a week. In all batches I used a starter for the appropriate wort. Used a degassing rod on a drill to aerate for 5 minutes. And I use wyeast nutrient in the last 10 minutes for boiling. I did everything I was supposed to, but the "stuck" fermentation was more like a pause. I think people should try 3724 if they want to. It's great yeast.

 

An alternative yeast strain to brewing a flavorful Saison is using White Labs Saison III yeast (WLP585). I have a batch that has just completed primary fermentation in less than 2 weeks with fermentation temperatures in the low-mid 70’s. This is the third time I have used this strain with consistent results; fermentation complete in less than 2 weeks and not even an iota of a chance for stalling.

The ‘bonus’ is that for my palate WLP565 produces a ‘better’ flavor profile than Wyeast 3724. I have brewed with 3724 twice and while it produces a nice flavor profile it takes a lengthy amount of time to complete primary fermentation (even if there is no specific stall).

Cheers!

 

How about sharing your own experience with 3724? What did it do for you with an adequate pitch rate, oxygen, and nutrients?

Edit: I see you just did. You've brewed with it twice, so you appeal to authority, even though it's not consistent with your own limited experience. Why?

 

For both of my batches brewed using 3724 I had the conditions of:

· Plenty of healthy yeast cells (2 liter starter; intermittent shaking)

· Plenty of dissolved oxygen in the wort prior to pitching the yeast

· Yeast nutrient (1/2 teaspoon of Wyeast yeast nutrient added to the boiling wort)

Both batches were brewed in the Summer time (mid-July through August); a warm/hot fermentation.

For the first batch I followed Drew’s suggestion: I did not use the airlock in my bucket. I placed a square piece of aluminum foil with the four corners weighed down with stainless steel washers over the bucket hole. The ‘challenge’ was that there were flying insects around (e.g., fruit flies) and more than once I saw them flying in the vicinity of the fermenter. I was very fortunate that none of those fruit flies decided to ‘shimmy’ under the aluminum foil and munch on the fermenting beer. Note: fruit flies are covered in Acetobacter and one fruit fly in the fermenting beer would result in infected beer.

So, my first batch using 3724 did not stall but it did take 4-5 weeks to complete primary fermentation. With good fortune no fruit flies got in to infect this batch.

My second time using 3724 I decided that the risk of bacterial infection from fruit flies was too great and I decided to use the airlock. Even though I pitched heavy (I actually over-pitched), had great dissolved oxygen, proper yeast nutrition and a very warm/hot fermentation this batch stalled. It took a total of 7 weeks for this batch to complete fermentation.

I have only one ‘data point’ of 3724 stalling despite following proper ‘standard’ fermentation process but there are many others that have reported the same over the years.

There is no doubt in my mind that 3724 is a fussy yeast.

For those homebrewers who have an environment with zero flying insects, and want to brew with the Dupont strain, conducting an open fermentation is the way to go. Both according to my experience but also the “authority”: Drew Beechum.

Cheers!

 

How did you add the dissolved oxygen? How much/what type of yeast nutrient?

How long did it spend at the exact same gravity during the "stall?" 6-ish weeks is not uncommon for a typical slow 3724 fermentation.

 

Everything was the same between the two batches as I have already posted:

“For both of my batches brewed using 3724 I had the conditions of:

· Plenty of healthy yeast cells (2 liter starter; intermittent shaking)

· Plenty of dissolved oxygen in the wort prior to pitching the yeast

· Yeast nutrient (1/2 teaspoon of Wyeast yeast nutrient added to the boiling wort)”

As can be easily seen above, the yeast nutrient amount was ½ teaspoon which I bold for fun.

Cheers!

 

Missed that. That should have been plenty.

How did you add the O2?

And how long did it spend at the exact same gravity during the "stall?" 6-ish weeks is not uncommon for a typical slow 3724 fermentation.

 

Omega Saisonstein finishes a 7% beer in 2 weeks and is similar to DuPont. No need for high temps. Yes, I used a starter, pure O2 and yeast nutrient.

 

@JackHorzempa, I think you missed these two questions...

1) How did you add the O2?

2) And how long did it spend at the exact same gravity during the "stall?" 6-ish weeks is not uncommon for a typical slow 3724 fermentation.

I think the answers could shed some light on the problem, if there was one.

 

The amount of O2 was common to both batches.

I did not specifically take notes on how long the stall occurred; that batch was from 2011.

The non-stalled batch took about 4 weeks to complete primary fermentation while the stalled batched took 7.5 weeks; so almost a factor of 2 difference in primary fermentation time.

Cheers!

 

I got that. But how did you oxygenate?