Things are slowly changing on the German beer scene... http://www.propeller-bier.eu/index.php?id=1258 A DIPA and an Imperial Stout, made in Germany. Anyone ever try them?
Very interesting. I have not had one yet, however I have tried Braufactum's Progusta and Colonia. The problem I see these places encountering is that the German beer consumer is being asked to pay around €6.75 per liter for a style that is not their own. I'd love to see them succeed, don't get me wrong, but I can identify with the Germans to a point on this one. While I'd love to see more diversity available to me here, I'd be hard pressed to justify paying for a case of this or Braufactum's offerings when I can get Weihenstephaner and other offerings for (in many cases) less than €2.00 per liter. I moved here from Seattle and I miss the heck out of IPA/APA/DIPA's and etc., but at some point +3x the price gets to be prohibitive. In other news, I think I saw on Schneider's FB page that they are going to start a barrel aging program.
I've been in Berlin for a few months and Propeller has been around in a few stores. I had the stout first and thought it was really rough and a definite miss. I wasn't expecting much from the IPA then, but ended up enjoying it. I like that this is being offered, though I completely agree with the previous post about Germans and the price point, but Propeller doesn't seem to be one of the better ones doing different styles. Hopfenstopfer, especially their Citra, is much nicer in my opinion: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2499/71345 cheers
At Bierzwerg.de, it's 1.99€ for 0.33L bottle of Propeller. At Propeller's site, it's 39.9€ per case of 18 0.33L bottles, which works out to 2.21€ a bottle. That's not very different from a bottle of Guinness at the local supermarket, which I bought last week for about 1.60€ for a 0.33L bottle. Yes, €6.63 per liter is steep, but only if you drink this beer (guzzle) like my possible future father-in-law drinks it. American craft beers are also 2 or 3 times more expensive than mass produced beers in the USA. Coors is guzzled, craft beers are sipped, not just because of the price but also the taste difference. Price point-wise, it's not priced far off the "foreign" brands. The average German beer consumer is ignorant concerning anything non-indigenous, just as they were in the USA around the 1980's, and it took over 25 years to get to a point that people drank anything other than the mass produced beer in the USA; thus, I predict this is a first mini step in the direction beers consumers are going in Germany. If it took over 20 (!) years to revolutionize the palate and way of thinking of the American consumer, and it's still a minority of the overall market, give the Germans time, let's say 10 years, for Germans, though slow and stubborn in change, really get rolling once it becomes a fad. (anecdote: I remember when I went to Uni in Schwaben in the mid-80s and couldn't find Weizens (Hefe or Kristal) anywhere outside Schwabenland, i.e southwest of Mannheim. Now... EVERY brewery including those in far north Germany produces one.) If any of you remember my post last month of the Faust Brauerei of Miltenberg, I was astonished to be drinking an IPA that rivaled my 3 Floyds Alpha King IPA cloned homebrew in hoppiness. Though it isn't listed on their website, everyone (all German) who drank it during and after the brewery tour was agog in delight to drink it. This was an educational/experimental brew probably, but these are just the first shoots of development for Germans venturing outside their comfort zone. I predict 10 years from now German mass brewers will be mass producing IPAs. It's a style that just begs to be reproduced. Things will change, but as per the German way, very grudgingly and very slowly until it reaches a tipping point, and then Katy-bar-the-door every brewer will be producing their swill of an IPA.
I agree with just about everything you say, but feel the need to quibble nonetheless. The great strength - or one of them, anyway - of German beer is the amount of good cheap beer that is readily available. Mass-produced German beer, by-and-large, is greater than mass-produced American beer. Yes, Americans are willing to pay extra for good beer, but it's mostly out of need. While it may be a treat every once in a while to splurge on a good IPA or Imperial Stout, if Pilot doesn't make an everyday "cheap" beer (there website only shows these two beers as far as I can tell) I don't see how they can be successful. I really enjoyed Progusta's Colonia (about the same price-point), but will probably never buy it again. I just can't justify it when Weihenstephaner, Rothaus, Hoepfner, and really many more here in relatively beer-deprived Heidelberg, are so cheap. I would imagine that tradition-conscious Germans (aka, Germans ) would not need much more of an excuse to continue buying styles that they're already familiar with. And while your wheat beer example is a good one, it had one thing very much in its favor - it is a truly German style. I could see Germans rallying to save a traditional German beer style. I don't know that I can see them rallying around (of all things!) an American style* of beer. Sadly I was in Miltenberg recently but couldn't get to Faust while it was still open. I did see it in a few bar/restaurants, however, and the Oldest Tavern place was promoting the IPA pretty good, so I do hope it's catching on. Didn't get to try it, though. * - I realize IPA's are not American in origin, I'm just sayin'.
True dat about mass-produced stuff in Germany, though the cheap beers sold often are just a step above American swill. "Cost-conscious" folks buy 0,50 cans, Öttinger or Padeborner. Yuck! A large majority of German beers are of high quality, but if you want the "same-ol" Pils, etc, that's the way to go; however, as ever diminishing beer sales attest in Germany, many don't want the same-ol any more. And demographics isn't on their side, either. The young'uns just aren't into beer that much today. In order for brewers to be financially viable in the future, they've got to differentiate themselves. They've tried the "gemischtgetränke"or beer & juice, yet that doesn't seem to be the answer, so now they've got to look elsewhere. I see 2 possibilities, either focusing on quality of their brews, a la the CAMRA revival in the UK. Yet that still leaves the problem of a lack of variety, or go in the direction of the craft beer revolution, a la the USA. I predict the latter over the next 10 years. Germans are just behind the curve here. Also, the "rally-round" aspect of German styles doesn't hold water, as the popularity of Prosecco vs. German Sekt attests.
Awesome to see this type of discussion in the German forums. Glad we're talking about it here where people have a good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of German beer culture. That said, I disagree with you about the "lack of variety" in German beers. Although this is true for many places, the fact is that areas like Franconia produce a wide variety of styles that most Germans, and even most Bavarians, don't know about: from Kellerbier to Landbier to Rauchbier to Steinbier to spicy dark lagers in the Czech tradition etc etc. My guess is that Bamberg, and Weyermann maltings, are more likely to lead the way in any "revolution" that may (or may not) occur in Germany. Matter of fact, in the 10 or so years since I lived in Bamberg more than 20 new beers have emerged from the local breweries in that town...and there are hundreds more from the outlying areas (see https://www.facebook.com/BierAusFranken, note: you may have to "like" to be able to view). And Weyermann is producing many new varieties of malt (from oak-smoked wheat to floor-malted dark Czech malts...not to mention their already wide varieties). I can see US style beers gaining some traction -- the way, say, brewpubs in the US style did in the 90s -- but I don't see us leading the way for German beer in this regard.
HB beat me to it. I don't think variety is the problem, I think - as is the case in America - it's distribution that's the problem. I can't get most beers from Franconia here unless I mail order them. Same with a quality Altbier or Kölsch (although a few good Kölsch brands find there way here). If another Berliner Weisse exists outside of Berliner Kindl, I have never seen it. As for brewers differentiating themselves, I don't know that "gemischtgetränke" are a fair example. Those that I've seen have come from the Brand [X] beer giants, and they're probably doing it more to appeal to the young 'uns who will one day be grown, salary-earning adults who remember fondly drinking Brand [X] beer-colas as a (underaged) youth. Brand loyalty starts young. It's true that Germans are drinking less beer (as far as I've read, anyway), but Rothaus is growing, and they have done it by making traditional German styles well, not resorting to gimmicks or silliness outside of Radler which is an accepted adult drink here.
"While it may be a treat every once in a while to splurge on a good IPA or Imperial Stout, if Pilot doesn't make an everyday "cheap" beer (there website only shows these two beers as far as I can tell) I don't see how they can be successful." The owner of Propeller is Brauerei Bosch in Bad Laasphe. They have been somewhat venturesome for some time now, offering a brown and a porter on their regular line-up next to pils, weizen, etc. I tip my hat.
As long as they are done well, that's all that matters. Weyermann's in-house pilot brewery is doing some interesting stuff as well, including a stout and a great smoked Kellerbier, Schlotfegerla (brewed up a few batches myself based on the recipe on their site...delicious stuff).
I tried the IPA - not the most ambitious IPA tbh And afaik the Propeller Getränke GmbH is part owned by the boss of Bosch and some beer sommelier. Looks like they deliberately separated the two business activities so as to not confuse people. Though Bosch makes some beers that sound quite adventurous for German palates, they are quite main stream. Their porter is an ordinary Schwarzbier, that's it. AFAIK the boss of Bosch would love to brew better beer on a larger scale, but people wouldn't understand what he does. That said, Bad Laasphe where Bosch and Propeller are brewed is a few km away but they don't sell Propeller here, except at the brewery store. People here simply don't understand these beers. Had to go to Cologne to buy Propeller IPA.
Welcome back Herr Rehm... how long has it been since you last posted? You, sir, have been neglecting your contibution to BA. . Just kidding. This man is a real Beer Advocate in his small circle of friends in a small university town, trying to convert his friends to beer with more taste. Please, ask him about his experience in attempts in being a Beer Advocate.
Please tell me about your experience in attempts in being a Beer Advocate. I am always trying to learn new things and I find the beer culture of Germany fascinating. Prost!
