Pseudosue batch variation questions

Drinking one from the most recent bottling right now. Mega hazy and more of a melon, rather than tropical mango note it seems. Amazing either way.

 

I'm a bit surprised some of you are getting a green onion thing on any bottle from the any batches going back to summer. Unless, you landed a bottle that is older (say, 2 months). Last winter I thought we were narrowing down that flavor to bottles that weren't truly fresh, as in the Citra hops were fading relatively fast. However, I think my point above may be true in that there really just was variance, batch to batch, before. But to see (taste) that now is somewhat odd, IMO. If anything, like BottleCaps says, the "fruit" may be a little different, but it's still a true Pseudo Sue, as has been for a good 4-5 months, consistent, now.

 

Popped a new label Sue tonight. I would agree that it doesn't seem quite as bright and citrusy as I've had previously, and I've also had a couple cases in total of previous batches. Still loved it nevertheless.

 

New label first batch is probably falling off a bit now. Can't say for certain as it didn't last at my house, just a guess

 

Naturally.

But it appears I wasn't keeping a good eye on my inventory. It was all Twisted Galaxy and Zeelander in my cellar.

 

Opened a bottle of the newest Sue last night. Super tasty and very hazy just the ways I likes it.

 

I'll be opening one for Iowa game today, will post the findings.

 

Latest batch is the best since the 2nd ever bottling.

 

I've been thinking about the implications of this thread.

Batch to batch variations that show up in color, clarity, or taste are classic quality control problems (see thread elsewhere on this site about craft beer having a quality problem). Exception: if the variations are intentional (i.e. still fiddling with the recipe, etc.) this would not be a quality problem. IOW, if the variations are caused by lack of process control, then it is a quality issue.

On the other hand, such variability (in general terms) is expected in anything that is hand-crafted and may in fact be valued. For example, hand-blown crystal goblets. We own several different sets of hand-blown goblets. Every single goblet in each set is unique in some way... slightly different height, "flaws" in the crystal, not exactly straight top edge, etc. This variability contributes to their value and their charm.

I've never had the pleasure of tasting TG beers, so I am taking at face value the variability being described here. So, I was wondering... do you TG "fans" (if I can use that word) consider this variability to be a good thing (as in hand-crafted) or a bad thing (as in poor quality control)?

 

I seemed to notice a bit of batch variation right around when they moved to the larger brew system. I had always assumed that the variation was them dialing in the larger system.

If they continue to crank out exceptional product, I think we can chalk the variation up to growing pains.

 

I think there is most definitely batch to batch variations. It's pretty obvious when you've got people saying things like, "this is probably their best batch yet." Or, "this batch just isn't quite up to par."

I know Mike has said the were two different suppliers of Citra hops they were using, so perhaps that could be one reason. Also, it's not just Sue. It's pretty much every hoppy beer they do that seems to vary from batch to batch. I'm assuming eventually the variations will go away...at least I hope.

 

Not just Toppling Goliath, every brewery deals with hop and grain variations with every batch.

About 6 months ago, on Twitter, Mike mentioned they wouldn't be using Finings (gelatin) to pull the grain particulate out of Pseudo Sue anymore. With the haziness everyone is seeing I assume that is why and I like hazy beers myself so no complaints here.

 

I think any of the flavor variations with diffrtent batches of Sue (or other single hopped beers), it is mainly due to the different batches of hops used. Who the supplier was, what time of year they were harvested, what conditions the hops were grown in or how long the hops were given to mature on the vine. As a matter of fact, i spoke with Mike in person at the taproom a few months ago and he mentioned this very thing. He brews the beer with all Citra as we know, but variations come with each batch of hops. That likely doesn't account for the hazy vs clear batches though.

 

Without speaking for TG or to the "quality" of PS (for however you want to define quality), i can tell you that anything that's heavily hopped - especially single hopped -, no matter the brewery nor the beer, will be exceptionally difficult to keep consistent from batch to batch and year to year, no matter how good your QA/QC is. You're dealing with an agricultural product that's extremely volatile and sensitive to a whole host of variables (even to the extent of what time of day they were harvested), any of which can affect how things end up in the long run. And that's not even looking at subtle water changes, or malt (which also changes from lot to lot). Haze can come from a lot of different things too, and I don't think it's necessarily an issue of "quality", though it all depends on what you're doing and what your goals are. What's acceptable in the taproom isn't always acceptable on a draft account or in bottles.

tl;dr: Hops are still a little (or a lot of) voodoo.

 

I both disagree (with the first part) and agree (with the second part) of what I quoted.

From a production perspective, unintended variations that affect the consumer's requirements ARE quality issues. Whether nor not these quality issues can reasonably be controlled and avoided is irrelevant. The variation is unintentional and the consumer notices and prefers one or the other or at least notices the change. No large brewery would allow this situation to continue with any of their flagship beers.

Quality does not equate to "goodness" in production. In production, quality is "a measure of excellence or a state of being free from defects, deficiencies and significant variations."

from: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/quality.html#ixzz3NtQXPSRG

Now, in "craft" (generic definition of "craft") businesses, such a production definition may not apply, and in fact, may be undesired (re: my comment about hand-blown goblets). No one would want hand-made "craft" items where the producer applied modern manufacturing quality controls to ensure every item was identical.

 

This thread inspired me to pop the bottle in my fridge during the Dallas-Detroit game this afternoon. Very hazy, possibly slighty less aroma, but extremely tasty. Most that I have had from a bottle have been hazy like this. Only one time on tap have I had it that it looked clear. Also, I seem to enjoy this beer MUCH more from the bottle than on tap.

 

I agree that it is better from the bottle than on tap.

 

I'd third that. Especially when it goes from tap to growler and then sits for a day or two. I much prefer the mouth feel of the bottle.

 

I've had the oniony problem with all of my bottles of ZeeLander(so bad I could barely drink it) but never with Sue.

 

Am I the only one that likes it better on tap? I suppose it could just be because I so rarely get it on tap, and I am usually out and about having fun with friends.