Question FG NB Belgian Saison

Exactly what I meant, I probably should have mentioned to the OP that if it it doesn't quite reach the target FG then I'd use less sugar at bottling than normal for the style to avoid overcarbonation. Saison yeasts are pretty aggresive and will continue to eat through residual sugars if left in the bottle at room temps. Cheers

 

“if it it doesn't quite reach the target FG then I'd use less sugar at bottling than normal for the style to avoid overcarbonation.”

I understand the concept of that sentence but how do you genuinely execute on that?

An estimated final gravity is not precise since it is just an estimate. The only entity that truly knows the ‘answer’ to what is the exact final gravity is the yeast. And this is the conundrum of using 3724 since it has a reputation of being a finicky yeast. There have been lots of folks who report that the yeast will stall out on them.

So, for the sake of discussion let’s use the figures I postulated earlier. The fermentation ‘stops’ at 1.009 but for some reason you have an expectation that the final gravity should be 1.005. Is there a formula that you can use to calculate the amount of needed priming sugar which accounts for the delta of 0.004 gravity points? Even if such a calculator exists, how ‘valid’ is the estimated final gravity of 1.005? Suppose the final gravity should really be 1.003; then the delta is 0.006 vs. 0.004.

The only way I know how to approach this issue is to once again state: “It is very important that the beer reaches final gravity before you bottle the beer.”

Cheers!

P.S. I have only used 3724 once and even though I had a good experience with that yeast (it never stalled out on me, the resulting beer was very tasty, etc.) I am hesitant to ever use it again. Its reputation of being finicky is less than appealing plus there are alternative yeast strains available who also make very tasty beer (White Labs Saison III for example).

 

Jack,

I can imagine having a saison that seems to have stalled out at 1. I can imagine eventually giving up hope that the yeast will shave down the gravity on that stalled beer and, wanting to salvage something for my efforts, I'm going to want to package it.

Nowadays, I'd keg it. Force carbonate, give it no extra substrate, and store it cold. If the yeast get a little peppy and begin chewing on the residual sugar, you can always readjust the pressure so it serves up properly. This probably won't happen if the keg is kept cold.

But what if I faced this scenario back in my bottling days? Tough call. Lots of possibilities.
(1) The yeast don't respond to the priming sugar. Flat beer.
(2) The yeast respond to the priming sugar but not the residual sugar in the beer. It primes up exactly as you predicted.
(3) The yeast respond to both, creating more carbonation than you wanted (and if too much more than you wanted, bottle bombs).

If I did prime and bottle this beer, I would be meticulous about monitoring the carbonation level by sampling the beer. I'd be sampling several bottles a week. Once I got the desired carbonation level, I would put those beers in near freezing storage in my converted chest freezer to suppress further action by the yeast. If all goes well, I've got myself an appropriately carbonated (but perhaps inappropriately sweet) saison. Also, during that priming period, I'd put my bottles in some enclosed container to minimize any mess if pressure gets too high. Obviously, this is not an ideal solution. There are limits to predciting the results, and there is some risk, but the meticulous checking and cooling should help minimize the risk.

Peter

 

Peter, those are all good thoughts there!

So much angst over making a Saison!?!

I suppose I am back to my personal thought of not using 3724 and instead make yummy Saison beers with yeast such as White Labs Saison III. While 3724 can indeed produce a tasty Saison (a nice balance of fruity and spicy flavors) its reputation of being finicky is a PITA!

Cheers!

Jack

 

PITA? Sure, I guess so. I tend to think that there is a lesson in its finicky nature; the seasoned homebrewer knows the nature of the yeast and acts accordingly with regard to fermentability of the wort, gravity, aeration, pitching rate, and fermentation temperature.

FWIW, I think NB could be a little more helpful to newbies in some regards. Their instructions for this kit (and most others, I think) prescribe a 2-week primary and a 1 month secondary. I understand they want to make it look like these kits are dummyproof by providing very specific instructions, but prescribing a duration for fermentation is misleading. Fermentation is over when it is over, which is not necessarily 14 days. Checking gravity and using sensory cues is the best way to know if it is time to rack from primary (to either packaging or secondary, depending on circumstances and how you feel about the necessity of secondary). Why don't the let newbies in on this? (And while were at it, making starters!).