Belgian/French Ales Raspberry Grisette - AG

Discussion in 'Homebrew Recipes' started by VikeMan, Jul 5, 2014.

  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,881) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Poor Man's Sour
    Grisette with Raspberries
    All Grain
    5.1 Gallons into Fermenter
    OG: 1.041
    FG: 1.007
    ABV: 4.5%
    SRM: Pink
    IBUs: 18 (Tinseth)

    Mash Efficiency Target: 70% (no sparge)

    Grain Bill:
    Weyermann German Pilsner Malt - 6.3125 lbs
    Weyermann Wheat Malt - 1.8125 lbs

    Hop Bill:
    60 Minutes - 1 ounce Hersbrucker Pellets, 3.1% AA (or a noble hop)
    20 Minutes - 0.5 ounces Styrian Goldings, 4% AA (or a noble hop)

    Yeast: Wyeast 3724, BrewCipher (default) pitch

    Strike Water (ppm): Ca 169, Mg 11, Na 12, Cl 102, SO4 236, HCO3 107
    1 ml lactic acid added to mash.
    Mashout Water (ppm): Ca 39, Mg 11, Na 12, Cl 17, SO4 39, HCO3 107

    Mash - 151F, 60 minutes, 1.475 quarts per pound
    Boil - 90 minutes

    Other Notes:
    Pitch at 67F, ramping up to 80F over first week.
    When attenuation is finished, rack onto 5 lbs Frozen and Thawed Raspberries for about a week, or until 3724 finishes eating fructose. Carbonate to 3.3-ish volumes.
    I am calling this beer "Poor Man's Sour" because I wanted a level of refreshing tartness (from the 3724 and the Raspberries) reminiscent of a sour (without using bugs), and that's how it turned out. Plus, you're poor after buying 5 lbs of raspberries.

    GormBrewhouse, mrjimcat, BILF and 4 others like this.
  2. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (736) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    Anything special you recommend to keep the 3724 finishing so high with the fermentable fruits and mash for high fermentability? 1.007 seems high with that low an OG for that strain.
  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,881) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    The 1.007 was the BrewCipher prediction, based on grist, mash temp, mash length, and yeast strain. I probably should have noted that the OG/FG/ABV were for the base recipe (before fruit). IIRC, the measured attenuation (before fruit) was almost dead on...I'm thinking actual FG was 1.006.

    Although I did take a refractometer reading after secondary (i.e. post fruit fermentation), I haven't bothered to figure out what it means in terms of 'total' OG and FG. (That would take some effort because I would have to estimate the fruit's contribution to OG, and a couple other tricks. Refactometer calculators are great, as long as you don't do something unusual, like not have a total "original" reading.)

    ETA: Without doing the math, my *guess* is that the ABV was not changed a *whole lot* by the fruit...the gravity of raspberries (including the water content of course) is in the ballpark of the OG of the base recipe, though of course fermentability is higher.
    #3 VikeMan, Jul 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  4. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Disciple (384) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    ^^^My favorite part of the recipe description

    Did you buy fresh raspberries, freeze them, then thaw them, or simply buy frozen? Is freezing adequate to avoid bugs? I was under the impression that some bacteria and wild yeast would survive freezing.

    I'm glad drinking on the job didn't ruin the batch for ya...
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,881) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I used fresh raspberries, froze them, then thawed them. It's true that some bugs can survive freezing, but it doesn't seem to have been an issue so far. I didn't want to pasteurize and then have to deal with pectin haze.

    Heh. Yeah, the 59 minute hop addition* turned out okay. The beer actually turned out pretty close to how I had envisioned it, and will most likely be rebrewed at some point.

    *The 60 minute hop addition actually happened at 59 minutes, which was entirely CurtfromHershey's fault, because he brought his homebrew over on Brew Day. I was bound by the dictates of homebrew sharing custom to sample it.
    CurtFromHershey likes this.
  6. Mag00n

    Mag00n Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2008 New York

    If you buy frozen be sure to look for 'no sugar added' :slight_smile:
  7. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Hey @VikeMan I just dumped our checking account into 5lbs of fresh raspberries. I have divided them into gallon bags and am going to freeze them. At any point did you kind of mush the raspberries? I'm wondering if I mush them either pre or post freezing if this will help them drop after they do their job so I'm not losing a ton of beer to the berries?
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,881) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I did break them up a bit by squishing the ziplock bags after thawing.
    I'm not sure what you mean by drop, but the raspberries floated, and I racked from underneath.
  9. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    That's what I was wondering. I was thinking about cold crashing to get the berries to drop but sounds like that might not work then. Perhaps I'll put them into a pain straining bag if they just float anyway.
  10. firstthenlast

    firstthenlast Initiate (78) Nov 25, 2013 Massachusetts

    I just did a very similar brew.

    For berries I bought a frozen bag of mixed raspberries, black and blue berries. The package said roughly equal portions. Mixed berries can be purchased frozen for pretty cheap (4lb bags at costco for a few bugs).

    I used 1lb/ga. Also I used 2lb of acidifed malt (for 5 gallons) instead of raw lactic acid. I will post results when its ready to taste.

    I am considering adding some acid before bottling to increase tartness.
    #10 firstthenlast, Nov 13, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2014
  11. Soneast

    Soneast Champion (815) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin


    Did you have any issues getting the 3724 to attenuate fully? I've never used the yeast before, but it sounds like it is known to stall out around 1.035. I pitched at 67°F Saturday (3/18). It's sitting at 77°F now, and plan to raise it to 80°F tomorrow. How long did it take you to reach FG?
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,881) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I don't have my batch notes handy, but I have used 3724 many times, and have never had it get stuck. But it is usually pretty slow. Anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 weeks. Usually closer to 2.
    Soneast likes this.
  13. Soneast

    Soneast Champion (815) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin

    Ok cool, I won't rush it then. Maybe check after two weeks and go from there. Thanks!
  14. Soneast

    Soneast Champion (815) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin

    Well it appears to have finished out just fine, I checked on Saturday (4/1) and it's sitting at 1.010. Will probably rack onto the berries next weekend just to give it a little bit more time (3 weeks total). The sample tasted really good!
    VikeMan likes this.
  15. Soneast

    Soneast Champion (815) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin

    Well here it is. Added berries for 1 week, about 7 lb mix of black raspberries and mulberries, about a 60/40 blend. After removing the berries I let it sit until April 28th and then kegged it up. Turned out very jammy. Not sweet though, thanks to the low FG. Plus there is a noticeable "tart"ness in the finish, which helps leave the palate "clean" for lack of a better term. Very refreshing with a nice "berry" flavor. My wife loves it. Something tells me it won't last long.

    Narkee, Drel, psnydez86 and 1 other person like this.
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,881) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Seeing that picture really makes me want to brew this one again.
    psnydez86 likes this.
  17. skleice

    skleice Aspirant (271) Aug 6, 2015 Connecticut

    @VikeMan I'm gonna brew a GF version of this recipe. Just wondering - why are the mash water sulfate/chloride levels so high? Thanks

    I'm looking forward to this. It's up next!
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,881) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I sometimes make my saisons/grisettes "hard and minerally." It's just a personal preference. But I don't think it's essential to this recipe. Aim for a reasonable pH, make sure the yeast get enough calcium, and it should be fine.
    skleice likes this.