Raw Beer: 100% Unmalted Barley

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by M-Fox24, Sep 10, 2023.

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  1. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not as often as it should. :beers:

    Others have pointed out that increased energy efficiency would be good for the environment. If the process is legit in that way, it’s something I would support.
     
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  2. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
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    Absolutely. I regularly (and gladly) pay more for goods and services if they are produced in a way that is demonstrably more environmentally friendly. I’m just skeptical of claims by companies that they “pass the savings on to you.” Usually I think that’s bullshit.
     
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  3. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    It's very rare that the environmental choice is also the cheapest. This could be one of those rare occasions, but I wonder even about that. It sounds like the brewing process is more involved since the enzymatic activity that typically happens in malting has to be done in 4 distinct temperature steps during mashing. I don't know how that energy use equation pencils out. Industrial malting facilities are surely making more efficient use of the energy that consume, per ton of grain, than your average small brewery
     
  4. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
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    I would only amend that statement to say “… looking at things from a very narrow, short-term point of view.” Looking at most things from the so-called “triple bottom line” perspective of economic, social, and environmental costs over the long term, the most environmentally and socially responsible choice is almost invariably also the least costly economically—maybe not to the individual company but to society as a whole. Unfortunately we are trained from a young age to think of things almost purely from a dollars-and-cents perspective and kick the can when it comes to “seventh generation” impacts. Hopefully that is changing but it’s often hard to tell which businesses genuinely believe in sustainability vs. those that see it as a useful marketing tool.
     
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The steeping process which precedes the germinating process uses a lot of water.

    I would encourage you to read the book Malt: A Practical Guide from Field to Brewhouse by John Mallet.

    Cheers!
     
  6. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Very good point. We've created a system that does a wonderful job of socializing costs and privatizing profits.
     
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  7. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
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    Not sure we created it but we sure managed to put it on steroids.
     
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  8. Siriusfisherman

    Siriusfisherman Maven (1,348) Aug 23, 2011 New Hampshire
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    You could boil longer to develop melanoidin in the wort or maybe perform decoctions if that works with their process.
     
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    When touring a craft malting operation it was stated that they would sell raw barley to local distillers who would use enzymes to convert the starch.
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    But those processes are energy intensive and counter to the goals of the Cool Cousins folks to be more efficient in the beer production process.

    Cheers!
     
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  11. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Powdered cake mix is more efficient in the cake baking process, but is nowhere near as good as a cake made without cutting corners. This beer brand should be competing on low prices as it is basically to beer what Folgers crystals are to coffee.
     
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  12. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    It's unfortunate that they are using the word "raw." The nerdy beer world has been using that term for the "raw farmhouse ales" of Nordic and Baltic countries. In that context, raw is used to indicate wort that isn't boiled. Raw ale. I had to do a double take when I saw the thread title.

    I'm definitely interested in trying the beer purely from the POV of wanting to taste a beer made that way.

    These are the numbers they have stated: "350ml of water and 16g of CO2 [saved] per 500ml of beer served"

    Personally, I'm less interested in the environmental aspects (or their pricing). They are obviously more interested in stating their environmental benefits than all of the negative impact of their beer production - from the growing of the barley, to their additional enzyme process, to the (plastic wrapped ?) single use aluminum can in the photo. :wink: I'm not trying to unfairly and unrealistically criticize them by saying that though (I'm not a complete blockhead). I'm really saying that to criticize a potential consumer notion that it's beer that is "good for the environment." It looks like trying the beer will be a challenge though - based on their site, it seems they are mainly in Brooklyn at the moment.

    It's standard for the types of NYC places that would serve local craft beers.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    And it is possible that the beer being brewed by the Cool Cousins is the functional equivalent of powdered cake mix? In all likelihood I will never know since as per Chris' (@zid) post above at the moment this seems to be only available in Brooklyn.

    Cheers!
     
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  14. zac16125

    zac16125 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,432) Jan 26, 2010 South Carolina
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    Yeah this sounds like a cost cutting measure from a businessman looking to turn higher profits, spun into an “environmentally friendly” message through marketing.

    I’m skeptical to say the least, but I’m also cynical, so take that with a grain of salt (just don’t wash it down with any water as that would be environmentally detrimental).
     
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  15. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Unless a brewery malts their own barley or other grains, I don't see how this process is of any efficiency to most brewers. In fact, the process seems to require the use of step mashing which I think takes extra time, thus more fuel for the heat source while mashing.

    This process of using unmalted barley will put malting companies out of business if it becomes legit and catches on. Malting companies will have to convert to selling raw barley and bottles of enzymes to make their living. (The enzymes that are the subject of this process are already commercially available, so Cool Cousins isn't getting any of that action as their reason for this publicity.)

    So will the cost of raw barley plus the cost of enzymes be lower for the small brewery than what the cost is for malted barley?

    The articles say there is an efficiency from the reduction in use of CO2. I don't get that part, and it is not substantiated in any of the referenced articles. My thinking says that CO2 is only used in the packaging process of beer for a brewer, and not at all for a maltster. Unless a brewer is wanting to sell 'still' beer, I don't see any saving in its use. Does anyone have a further thoughts for this claim?
     
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  16. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah, me neither. Sounds like the only significant processes he's modifying are, as you said, removing the malting process and using step-mash (plus enzymes) for conversion.
    Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can point to how that would decrease CO2 production.

    It does say "the brewery is currently 'experimenting with ways to cut down on the multistep mash time' and said 'it is very exciting' " Ooh la la.....very exciting. Can't beat 'very exciting' ! ! ! :hugging: :rolling_eyes:
     
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  17. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I suspect the CO2 emissions decrease claim is from cutting out energy costs associated with shipping grain to a maltster and associated energy costs from water treatment used for traditional malting…
     
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  18. dennisthreeninefiveone

    dennisthreeninefiveone Pundit (980) Aug 11, 2020 New Jersey
    Trader

    I guess your Experience is not in Brooklyn or many parts of NYC.
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It seems that the reduction of CO2 claim is from reduced transportation (i.e., trucks):

    “In addition to the water and energy savings, there’s also the added benefit of the grains going straight from farms to the brewery, meaning less emissions from trucking the grains to and from the malt house. Cool Cousin sources its grains from nearby farms in New York and Pennsylvania to keep those trucking emissions as low as possible. By Cool Cousin’s own calculations, it saves 350 milliliters of water and 16 grams of CO2 per pint. On a macro scale, the brewery estimates that 15 billion liters of water and 720 million kilograms of CO2 would be saved if every beer made in America used unmalted barley.”

    https://www.insidehook.com/article/booze/new-brewery-raw-beer-approach-step-closer-sustainable-brews

    Cheers!
     
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  20. beergoot

    beergoot Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,310) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    ..."Malting is incredibly old school and inefficient"...

    ...yeah, all right...and so how does this process translate into toasted / roasted / charred malt characteristic...smoked malts...heritage malts and their flavorings...an 'exogenous enzyme cocktail' will somehow cover these unique elements of the brewing process along with yeast and hop interactions and profiles as well as the aging processes...all these 'old school' elements that give the wide variety of historic and current beers their uniqueness and distinctive characteristics can be magically replicated or improved upon by this enigmatic enzyme cocktail...???...

    ...convince me...I'm willing to change my tune, but I'm very skeptical...
     
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