I have a couple of sours that I am not too far off from bottling. I plan on getting some of the 375ml Belgian style bottles that can be capped. I want these to have a higher level of carbonation but how many volumes can I realistically carbonate these to without producing gushing bottles. I definitely do not want to ruin a year plus of my time and space by producing bottles that shoot off like mentos in diet coke. Side not, with year plus aged sour beer, should I be worried about adding yeast at bottling time to carbonate these beers?
champagne is bottled to 11 v/v. a champage bottle can withstand well over 11 vols. but that is with a real champagne bottle, the kind that have a heavy punt. my w.a.g. is that you could easily have 4 v/v of pressure in a corked belgian bottle. not all specialty beer bottles are created equal though. i would buy new bottles. the glass does fatigue, so new is your best bet. and this might be a time to buy from a real store, where you can see and feel the bottle before buying. keep the beer well chilled before uncorking to minimize gushing. and with bacteria present in a sour beer, your on your own determining how much residual sugar will be converted to co2. you could overprime if you arent careful is my guess. Cheers.
I can’t comment to what the bottles can withstand. As a FYI, the priming calculator on tastybrew.com lists a carbonation range of 3 -4.5 Atmospheres for Lambic/Geuze. Cheers!
Yeah, I have definitley seen the calculators but I was hoping for some first hand experience as to how high I could go before I ended up with bottles of beer that mostly end up on the floor or flat by the time the foam settles. I might stick to the lower end in the low 3's as I do 2.2-2.5 for my normal beers now and am happy with that. A little more should get me where I want to be.
Do you think it would be worth the investment to go the cork route? I am leaning more and more towards this but its hard as I dont bottle too often anymore. I guess I will bottle most of not all of my sours. I am definitely going to buy new bottles for this, thanks for the tip. My LHBS has some bottles but I may have to find somewhere with a larger selection. I like the Drie Fonteinen style 375's with a nice little punt in them but cant really seem to locate them. I am not opposed to doing 750ml bottles but I find I get my carbonation levels all over the place with larger format bottles.
“I was hoping for some first hand experience as to how high I could go before I ended up with bottles of beer that mostly end up on the floor or flat by the time the foam settles” Yeah, I can’t help you there. I personally do not enjoy drinking highly carbonated beers; they taste too prickly and acidic (carbonic acid from the high level of carbonation). I brew a lot of Belgian Trappist/Abbey Ales and I always carbonate them at ‘normal’ carbonation levels (e.g., 2.2 – 2.5). I have a case of Tripel Karmeliet in my basement. When I drink one of those I pour it into a BIG Tulip glass and let it sit for 5+ minutes for the CO2 to outgas before drinking that beer. Cheers!
i cant say for sure if corks will hold up better. i have had bottles of cider pop a cork, but ive never had a crown cap bust open. the bottom of the bottle is the weakest part, right at the crease. so champagne bottles have alot of glass and surface area down there. i don't know any good reason to use a cork except tradition. champagne has a wire cage for a reason i suppose. i have a few tall, narrow bottles. they might be called bellisima. they look like they are for olive oil. heavy but they need a cork. might the right size and thickness if you can find any. green, clear and cobalt blue. of course if you use 750s you wont have as many bottles. but then you are committed to a 750 every time. i sometimes use a few clear coke bottles for my long term beers, the small 6 ounce ones.. i can see the beer and testing is not wasteful. Cheers.
Looks like I'll carb them up mid range and use a capped Belgian style 375ml bottle, it just seems like the path of least resistance here and all in all I will still end up with something functional.
I hear ya. To be clear, you are capping (not corking?). This is definitely a process that needs to be tested before you open a production line. Do you have access to CO2 and kegs? If so, you could carbonate any type liquid (water even) at 3 volumes, 4 volumes and 5 volumes and seal up a few test bottles. Give them some time and see how they react when you pop them. Obviously you know that colder is better, but it might be fun seeing how a 5 volume bottle left in the sun reacts (all for science). Once you get a feel for this, maybe bottle-carb a single lambic and see how it behaves. You really want to know how your new yeast/sugar reacts before you commit the entire batch. I have two "practice" 375's that I've corked and stored with the sole intent to learn/test the process. The goal is to have the technique down in time to have gifts for Xmas. No problem wasting a Yuengling or two as I learn, but can not risk a 5 gallon batch right out of the gate. You didn't ask, but I think a corked Belgian makes a pretty strong statement. Just picture serving it with waffles while wearing a beret . . .
I do usually keg so thats actually a really good idea with the water. Thanks for the tip! I am not in a huge rush to bottle these yet so I will have some time to experiment. I always like the look of the cork 10X better but unless I get a lot of pressure in there, getting the cork out can be akin to trying to take the wax off of a bottle of Abyss... if you havent tried that yet, lets just say it isnt very fun
+1, yes, glass does most certainly fatigue. I picked up a 2-year-old empty growler yesterday by the loop, and it sheared straight off from just the weight of the glass. Cut my finger to the bone. Totally freaked me out, I'm recycling my entire stash of empty bottles and starting fresh with new ones.
“I picked up a 2-year-old empty growler yesterday by the loop, and it sheared straight off from just the weight of the glass. Cut my finger to the bone. Totally freaked me out …” I am freaked out just reading about that! Recently, barfdiggs related this about a carboy: “I decided to switch when I was looking at a carboy that was drying, and all of the sudden it literally just shattered.” Glass is freaky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've done 3.5 vols in the regular 12oz bottles before and had three or four of them (out of about eight cases) burst. As the bottles you're using are surely stronger and probably designed for higher pressures, I wouldn't hesitate to carb them to 3.5-4 vols. Also don't forget to account for less residual CO2 at bottling time due to the year-plus of aging. And definitely add bottling yeast.
I would! It seems like whenever I start getting up to around 3 I produce gushers. Maybe it's just me, or not accounting for the correct max temperature that the beer was at.
