Recipe Critique - Saison

I personally would nix the crystal malt. A Saison beer brewed to style should be very dry; no need for crystal malt.

I personally brew with sugar vs. honey but they both accomplish the same thing: they are very fermentable and aid in creating a dry beer.

My experience with Briess Pilsen DME is that it is very fermentable; the use of sugars (honey/sugar) is optional. Also, Wyeast 3711 is a ‘beast of a yeast’. It will ferment your beer down to a very low final gravity regardless of adding honey/sugar. The last time I brewed using 3711 it took my Original Gravity of 1.060 (6 lbs. of Munton’s Extra Light DME and 1 lb. of sugar) down to a Final Gravity of 1.001 in less than a week.

To set your ‘expectations with 3711, it is a very ‘active’ Saison yeast but it produces spicy and peppery flavors. To my palate, it is “not overly peppery” but I can’t comment on your palate.

I have never added pureed Pineapple to a beer so I can’t comment on that. I will say that I have personally enjoyed the several Saison beers that I have brewed with 3711. The 3711 yeast provided all the flavors that I wanted in a Sasion.

Good luck with your Saison!

Cheers!

 

Don't be surprised if it finishes even lower than you think. My last saison with extract and 3711 finished at 1.006. Personally, I would skip the pineapple. If it is tropical flavors you are after then do it with hop choice.

 

Fruity and not overly peppery suggest 3724 to me, rather than 3711, which IMO tilts further toward the peppery than 3724.

 

Along with the others, I'd tell you that 1.011 is almost all but guaranteed NOT to be your FG with 3711. More like 1.002. As for the spicy, peppery flavors, I let mine ferment at ambient, and got mostly citrus. Hell, I even added a tablespoon of cracked black pepper and still didn't taste peppery flavors. So if you want minimal pepper, I'd say 3711 is a good choice. Also, if you want more fruity, less peppery, I'd buck convention and say leave that crystal in there.

 

“I let mine ferment at ambient, and got mostly citrus.” Interesting, what is “ambient” for you?

I have fermented 3711 around 70°F and my Saisons were dominated by spicy and peppery flavors. I got a bit of citrus from 3711 but is was definitely ‘second fiddle’ in my beers.

The recommended temperature range for 3711 is: 65-77F

Cheers!

 

Ambient was about 68. I never bothered to add heat, as it seemed to be dong fine without it. Ended at 1.002. I'd imagine heat would change the profile a bit. I used a half pound of crystal 10, just like the OP, and this thing was fruity as can be, with no pepper that I could detect at all.

 

I find Sorachi ace to be really really good with 3711, specially in small amount so you don't get the fake lemon flavor and more of a orange marmelade. the point is i wouldn't waste sorachie ace on the bittering and move it to the end of the boil.

ho and like every one else said, your FG is most likely going't to be below 1.005.

 

The temperatures I mentioned (around 70°F) was the fermentation temperature (i.e., the temperature reading of the fermometer). With an ambient temperature of 68°F and a vigorous fermentation maybe your fermentation temperatures were around 73°F? I am thinking that a warmer fermentation temperature may increase the esters and citrus flavors that 3711 is capable of producing?

Cheers!

 

I guess this is closely enough related to the original topic. :-) I'd have thought the higher temps would contribute more of the pepper, less of the citrus in that particular yeast. Might be interesting to see if anyone has done a comparison, fermenting cool and warm with 3711 to see what happened.

 

My saison with 3711 I fermented around 68-72 and I got very little pepper

 

83% 2-row pale malt
17% torrified wheat
.5 oz Perle 9% 60 min
.5 oz Perle 9% 10 min
1/2 t coriander @flameout
3711 fermented in a swamp cooler, wrapped in wet towel, ambient temp 75F

OG 1.052, FG 1.002, slight peppery notes, very dry, very tasty and refreshing.

 

3711 was not a fruity yeast, in my experience. However, in my opinion, your recipe should make a tasty beer provided you control fermentation temperatures and don't add the pineapple. I have no opinion about pineapple in beer, other than it doesn't sound great to me. I think that adding some crystal malt, often not recommended for saisons in order to achieve dryness, is not a bad thing, especially with 3711 which is so attenuative. If I were planning to enter this into competition, I might think twice about that, because judges will probably ding you for residual sweetness (assuming there might be some). Still, it should be tasty.

 

Id take out the crystal. Id also make sure to get some wheat in there. Also, as many have mentioned, you will never finish that high with 3711. I just had one finish at 1.003 from 1.050. If you are really looking for fruity and citrus rather than spice and pepper, dont use french saison yeast, use the belgian.

 

A single yeast cell could theoretically propagate and 'gobble everything.' The beer would be terrible. The value of a starter is not related to its ability or lack thereof to ferment maltotriose.

 

I let my Saison beers fermented with 3711 sit in the primary for a total of two weeks: one week of primary fermentation and one week of ‘extra’ conditioning.

As regards the topic of whether you need to make a starter, that is something for you to decide. A number of BA folks are proponents of the yeast calculator on the Mr, Malty website. That yeast calculator will yield a ‘result’ that you need to make a starter for your Saison. An alternative point of view is what Wyeast states on this topic: you don’t need to make a starter for your Saison. Below is from the Wyeast website:

“6. Do I need to make a starter for an Activator?

No. The Activator is designed to deliver professional pitch rates (6 million cells/ ml.) when directly added to 5 gallons of wort. ( <1.060 at 70 degrees). However, if a package is slow to swell, suspected of being mishandled, or if the date is approaching the six month shelf life it is a good idea to build the culture up with a starter. High gravity or low temperature fermentations require higher pitch rates. This can be achieved with inoculating with additional packages or making a starter.”

Cheers!