Recipe help/critique

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by jtdolla911, Apr 7, 2013.

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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    First, I dispute the idea that even a fresh pack has enough viable cells for optimal fermentation of 5-gallons of 1.060 wort. But that aside...

    Despite the fact that a 4 month old pack/vial of yeast contains many less viable cells then a fresh pack, the manufacturers continue with their dumbed-down advice that implies they are equivalent. Irresponsible IMO. We can all argue all day about the what the best pitch rates might be, but if you accept that there is a best pitch rate (pick any best rate you want), following the manufacturers' advice won't hit it.
     
  2. sergeantstogie

    sergeantstogie Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2010 Washington

    I believed this too until I read the March/April Zymurgy where Neva Parker says " It's a common miscoception ...that low pitching rates can cause excess esters because you're encouraging a lot of yeast growth. However, the opposite is actually true, that lower growth rates (as a result of higher yeast pitching cause more ester production."
     
  3. Xul

    Xul Pooh-Bah (2,139) May 18, 2008 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Interesting...I certainly wouldn't dispute her conclusion considering her experience, but I'm quite surprised. I've heard multiple professional brewers say that they had to play with - and reduce - pitching rates to dial in the yeast character they wanted out of their hefeweizens. Perhaps isomyl acetate is an exception, or perhaps there was another variable that the brewers in question were missing, but I'm certainly surprised to hear that reduced pitching rates doesn't encourage ester production.
     
  4. sergeantstogie

    sergeantstogie Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2010 Washington

    Yeah, so am I. I don't have a ton of anecdotal evidence because I usually want to ensure a fully attenuated beer. But in my Hefes I have only pitched straight from the tube/smack pack where I should have built at least a smallish starter in the belief I would get more of the "esters" (phenols) I wanted. It could be she is being literal and not counting phenols or other flavor producing agents created in the fermentation process. Also, it doesn't say which yeasts she used to come to this conclusion.
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If she said Esters, I'd be very surprised if she is including Phenols, becaue she certainly knows better than to confuse the two. My question would be if her general rule about esters applies to Isoamyl Acetate specifically.
     
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  6. sergeantstogie

    sergeantstogie Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2010 Washington

    I've never been one for experiments, but this seems like a good one to try. My next hefe, maybe next October when I'm finally (hopefully) out of this shit hole I will split a 10 gallon batch between two 6.5 gallon fermenters. One pitched with only a fresh tube and one with a proper starter.
     
  7. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Maven (1,311) Nov 6, 2007 California

    This experience is with a slightly different strain, but a combo of higher pitching rate (so regular-ish for an ale versus under pitching), LOW oxygen (just shake the carboy, no aeration or pure o2) and starting fermentation at 68 and letting free-rise to 75 gives tons of banana esters

    Also, carahell and carapils can be great in a hefeweizen. Give it a try and see what you think.
     
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