recipe question

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by jakwi, Apr 15, 2015.

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  1. jakwi

    jakwi Initiate (0) May 14, 2014

    Hi all, I tend to be a lurker here, but i finally have a question i need some help with. I just kegged an all grain supposed fat tire approximation. It came out good but with a slightly acidic or lemony flavor. If I was shooting for that I'd think I nailed it, but it was totally unexpected. Any idea what caused the lemony flavor? Is this an off flavor?

    Mashed at 154f for 90min

    OG 1061
    FG 1012

    My expected OG was 1.052 so I overshot that and FG was supposed to be 1.010 so it is a tad high, but it was definitely done.
    6.43% abv

    10 gal batch
    10lbs Munich
    10lbs 2row
    1lb victory
    .5 biscuit
    .25lb 80L crystal

    .8oz Northern @60min
    .6oz halertau @15min
    .25oz Willamette @5min
    All pellet

    1332 ale yeast (not the recommended yeast butit was what I had)

    Fermented in a chamber for 2 weeks at 64f 2 weeks at 69f
    Kegged yesterday so it is really green.

    Still very hazy, and I only pulled a tiny bit in a glass, but the final product tastes very similar to the intermediate fermenting samples.

    Thanks for the help
     
  2. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Is it straight up lemon or more like sour dough bread tartness?
     
    inchrisin likes this.
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Possibly removed from yeast too early -acetaldehyde? Sometimes described as green apple. Maybe perceived as lemony?

    In my experience, keeping the yeast active will help it go away. Since you kegged it I recommend keeping the keg warm and checking the flavor in a week. If still present, make a small active fermentation with a small starter (maybe 250-500 mL) of dry yeast. While that is active, pitch it into your beer to see if active yeast can clean it up.
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah


    Minor Lacto infection maybe?
     
  5. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Yeah, could be Lacto possibly. See any white stuff on top in the fermenter? Also, how did you control mash & sparge pH? Did you add any acid at all? It is possible to add too much acid. Otherwise, give it time, it might just be young yet.
     
  6. jakwi

    jakwi Initiate (0) May 14, 2014

    My fermenter is a sanke keg, so I didn't get a really good look at it before racking it to the kegs. I've never had an infection before so I suppose it could be lacto, but I don't really know what that tastes like. I usually clean with pbw and let a gallon or so sit in the keg til my next brew session. Then I rinse with cold water, spray some idophor in there and call it good.

    Two new things this time. Fermentation control, & copper counterflow chiller which I forgot to rinse before first use.

    The fermentation was done for at least the last 2 weeks according to my readings.

    The other thing is that my yeast was 9 months old harvested from my first starter. It was a little slow to start, but seemed ok, it took 4 days to get going. I pitched a 1 liter starter.

    It is really green, not even fully carbonated yet, so maybe it will mellow out.

    I do appreciate the input, I don't like not knowing how to avoid it next time.
     
  7. jakwi

    jakwi Initiate (0) May 14, 2014

    Oh and it is straight up lemon that ends acidic as the flavor fades.
     
  8. jakwi

    jakwi Initiate (0) May 14, 2014

    Sorry one last response, no pH control, I did add gypsum and salt per vikemans sheet. About 5g each to the mash and boil water. Now that I think about it, that was tuned more to a brown ale than this amber ale. All of my dark beers have turned out great.
     
  9. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    This is a probable culprit.
     
  10. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Are you saying no sanitation of the chiller?
     
  11. jakwi

    jakwi Initiate (0) May 14, 2014

    Well the wort was fresh from boil and I ran it through for 2 min before I turned the cooling water on so that should have sanitized the chiller, right?

    I also suspect the yeast, it may have been stressed. My starter was 1.020 since I knew it was older. It seemed like it took forever to get started.

    The only other thing I can think of is that I tried a new to me lhbs. They weighed, mixed and milled the grain before I got there. I have no reason not to trust them but it is a variable.
     
  12. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    pairs well with seafood. :slight_smile:
     
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  13. jakwi

    jakwi Initiate (0) May 14, 2014

    Thanks for all of the replies and input. It's not bad, so I'll definitely be drinking it. I do have a couple of bottles that are conditioning with sugar so if it is Diactly that should clear it up I believe. For next time I'll sanitize thoroughly and use fresh yeast. Mostly I wanted to make sure that none of the ingredients I used, especially the hops, or the yeast variety would produce this flavor intentionally. I looked them all up and couldn't find any reference to a citrusy or lemon flavor so the only thing I can think is either lacto, or bad yeast.

    Thanks again
     
  14. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    It's possible you got a batch of hops, especially if American or New Zealand grown, that had a bit more citrus than intended. Possible. Lacto isn't super lemony, so if you are clearly getting citrus loud and clear, then it's from the hops, not Lacto. If I could taste the beer, I think I could tell you which... unfortunate I can't be there with you. :slight_smile:
     
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  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Looking at his hop schedule, IMO there's no way those hops are going to give significant lemon/citrus character, regardless of where they were grown.
     
  16. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I don't disagree. It's pretty unlikely. But I've heard of stranger things happening with terroir.
     
  17. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    If it can be proven, BA should put those hops on a "terroir watch list". :slight_frown:
     
  18. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    A 10 gallon batch using 1.65oz of hops? The lemon isn't from the hops!
     
  19. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Good point.
     
  20. bushycook

    bushycook Zealot (681) Jan 31, 2011 Virginia

    Badoom-tish...
     
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