Recipe questions

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by invertalon, Oct 2, 2015.

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  1. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I am debating what to do with my stout this weekend… I have some questions below.

    It is a pretty robust stout…

    55% 2-row
    11% Munich
    8.2% Chocolate Malt
    8.2% Specialty Roasted Barley
    5.5% Oats
    5.5% Victory Malt
    2.7% 60L Crystal
    2.7% Cara-Pils
    1.4% Black Patent

    Magnum and Willamette Hops (74 IBU) and Nottingham Yeast, fermented at 62F first week, up to 65F for two days and now in the 67-68F temp range until this weekend. SRM is 50+.

    OG ended up being 1.080 and it looks like my FG stabilized at 1.028… I was hoping for a higher OG and lower FG (target was like 8.5% ABV, but I ended up at 7%).

    The “serious” question…

    I am debating about either just cold crashing in primary for a few days and just bottling early next week, allowing for about two months of bottle conditioning.

    Or…

    Not cold crashing, transferring to secondary and allowing to age in secondary for at least a month or more… Then cold crashing that and bottling, allowing it to then bottle carb and then age another few weeks that way.

    My target is to finish it for “release” December 1st with either method.

    Also… Stupid question time… I am debating on the style of beer this is… Stout, Imperial Stout, Oatmeal Stout, Imperial Oatmeal Stout? It kind of drifts between a few of those in terms of the official style guidelines. Thoughts? I am leaning toward “Imperial Stout” although my ABV ended up a little short, but the OG and FG was within range.

    Taste wise based on the hydro samples it has a wonderful thick mouthfeel… Really not too sweet and balances out the higher IBU nicely. It was the first beer I modified the water profile for and thankfully ended up fantastic. Wonderful malt flavors coming through. I am sure with a little aging it will really become outstanding.

    Aside from the above, next weekend I will be brewing an IPA using my homegrown Cascades for part of the dry-hopping… Will also be the first IPA I adjust water for and will try a few new hopping techniques (First wort hopping and whirlpool at 170F). Excited to see how it comes out… Using a bit more of a complex malt bill with a little Victory (3.8%), Munich (7.7%), Vienna (7.7%) and Cara-Pils (3.8%) along with the 2-row (77%) base malt. Hops will include Ahtanum, Simcoe, Amarillo, Mosaic and Cascade. Have not used Ahtanum and Mosaic before in my homebrew.

    Lastly, my Oktoberfest I brewed 7-8 weeks ago is just finishing up bottle conditioning and will spend next week cold-conditioning in the bottle.

    Exciting month!
     
    #1 invertalon, Oct 2, 2015
    inchrisin likes this.
  2. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Cold crashing homebrew isn't significantly beneficial. It will introduce oxygen into solution. This alone negates the benefits.

    My advice is to leave the beer in the primary for 3-4 weeks to give the yeast extra time to settle, then age it in the bottle. If your yeast pitch, oxygen and fermentation temperature was proper, there is no need to remove the lid for a hydrometer sample until you are ready to bottle. A secondary has no benefit for this beer, but it does have a detriment.
     
    #2 Brew_Betty, Oct 2, 2015
    dmtaylor likes this.
  3. warchez

    warchez Zealot (545) Oct 19, 2004 Massachusetts

    Curious, how does cold crashing introduce oxygen into the solution?
     
    #3 warchez, Oct 3, 2015
  4. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    Dropped pressure inside of carboy sucks back airlock liquid and air
     
    #4 CurtFromHershey, Oct 3, 2015
    inchrisin and dmtaylor like this.
  5. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Totally agree with the above advice. I would keep it warm for a few more weeks, don't rack it. You might want to add more yeast and swirl the fermenter from time to time to keep the yeast in suspension. Nottingham is a very consistent performer at 77-78% attenuation for me, so it seems like it quit early and needs to be roused back into suspension. Patience and swirling will get the gravity down more, if you want it to.

    Or, if you like the FG of 1.028, then you could cold crash to prevent refermentation, if you think you prefer it that way.

    Either way, it is indeed an Imperial Stout.
     
    #5 dmtaylor, Oct 3, 2015
  6. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I agree with Curt on this point and also, oxygen is more soluble in cold beer than warm.
     
    #6 dmtaylor, Oct 3, 2015
  7. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    I have 2 carboys aging at 40 F for 2 months, am I ruining these beers due oxidation?
     
    #7 Tebuken, Oct 3, 2015
  8. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Probably not, it's a very low risk. But if you find your beer is ruined by oxidation, then your beer is ruined by oxidation. And that would suck.

    Seriously... why such a long lagering period? It probably doesn't improve much anymore after the first 2-3 weeks.
     
    #8 dmtaylor, Oct 3, 2015
  9. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    I like my beers crystal clear, it takes more than 2-3 weeks to cold crash to get a perfect crystal clear beer, I didn´t know until today it would be so risky in regards oxidation, otherwise I wouldn´t bother with such beer clarity. Next time I will use finings as I ´ve used in the past without aging so long.
     
    #9 Tebuken, Oct 3, 2015
  10. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Yep, one word: gelatin.
     
    #10 dmtaylor, Oct 3, 2015
  11. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks guys... I will let the beer ride out another few days on the primary (close to 3 weeks total) and then just bottle and let condition/age in the bottle a month or two. I have been swirling the beer every other day or so carefully to try and get the yeast going to push just a little more (Ideally, something like 1.024 or so would be nice). But it tastes really nice as-is, so I am not really concerned. I will cold crash a few days prior to bottling just to drop out a little sediment/yeast... I will start that like Wednesday and bottle on Sat when I brew my IPA and need the fermentation freezer...
     
    #11 invertalon, Oct 3, 2015
  12. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    One last question...

    If the yeast did go dormant and will not go any further, would it be a good idea to pitch a little more yeast at bottling? I saved about 1/4 of a packet of the Nottingham used in case I did a very long age, but since I will be doing that in the bottle now, should I still rehydrate and pitch that yeast in the bottling bucket to ensure the yeast will do something or should it be fine as-is?

    I guess my only concern by doing that is the yeast starts overly-eating and I end up with a highly carbonated stout... I could bottle-prime toward the low end of the range if that should happen (ideally I want middle to middle-high end of the carb range for the style).

    I took the fermentation bucket out of the freezer now (was sitting at 66-67F) and will let it ride up to 68-70F for the next few days... Also swirled the bucket again to try and get some yeast action going on.
     
    #12 invertalon, Oct 3, 2015
  13. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I would add the 1/4 packet of Notty right away, many days before bottling. This is more for insurance than anything else -- more than likely, it will not continue to ferment. But there is a very slight chance that it could get fermentation going again.

    Another thing you could try is to add yeast energizer. This is sold at every homebrew shop and has saved my butt a couple of times. IF you really want gravity to come down, this MIGHT help. And/or, a fairy dust sprinking of zinc might help -- I do this sometimes using the regular old zinc supplement pills from any supermarket -- break one in half, and rub the ends together lightly for a second over your beer. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but they say yeast can be lacking zinc if you don't use spring water and manage to tire it out somehow.
     
    #13 dmtaylor, Oct 3, 2015
  14. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I forgot to add I mashed in at ~155F/156F... With all the specialty malts as well, I wonder if the yeast really is just done at this point. I pitched 1.75 packets of rehydrated Nottingham into the beer, batch size of ~5.5 gallon. So it was a healthy pitch of yeast. Fermentation started quick and was vigorous for a few days. BeerSmith estimates the FG should have been 1.021-1.022.

    I was going to pitch that last bit of yeast I have, but if it finished at 1.028 I wonder if it really is not that big of a deal. I will still pitch that last 1/4 packet or so at bottling, just to be sure I get carbonation. I guess if it finished at something like 1.03-1.035 or something I would be more concerned.

    I will ride it out and hope for the best!
     
    #14 invertalon, Oct 3, 2015
  15. warchez

    warchez Zealot (545) Oct 19, 2004 Massachusetts

    More O2 than when racking?
    My point is that I entirely agree with the observable phenomenon of suck back as it cools. No doubt it happens. I question whether the scale at which it happens is enough to cause noticable oxidation. I have never attributed oxidation issues to my cold crashing.
    You can minimize suck back by cold crashing in slower steps vs. going from ferment temp to "cold" temp. I tend to do a few degrees each day, till I get there.
    Oxidation reactions occur faster at warmer temps, so if O2 does get in you are mitigating its action with the colder temp as part of the crash, no?
     
    #15 warchez, Oct 6, 2015
  16. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    As is CO2 (which is already there)
     
    #16 GreenKrusty101, Oct 6, 2015
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, but O2's solubility into a given solution is not affected by the presence or absence of CO2.
     
    #17 VikeMan, Oct 6, 2015
  18. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Sure about that? "A given solution" would be the same solution...water/beer/saltwater...but carbonated beer is not the same solution as uncarbonated beer (not to mention the elusive CO2 blanket over the solution)

    For the record, I don't cold crash my beer before kegging anyway
     
    #18 GreenKrusty101, Oct 6, 2015
  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Uncarbonated beer and carbonated beer both have the same capacity for absorbing O2.
     
    #19 VikeMan, Oct 6, 2015
  20. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    capacity and ability are two different things
     
    #20 GreenKrusty101, Oct 6, 2015
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