Recipie check me please (saison)

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by corbmoster, Jun 11, 2015.

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  1. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I just looked at my recipe book and it appears I have never used Simcoe in a Saison. I have used Cascade, Legacy, Perle, Willamette, Belma, Calypso, Sorachi Ace,... in Saisons (not all at once). I really like hoppy saisons.

    Last summer I did a 11 gallon batch of "Summer Beer" that I split with Mangrove Jack Burton Union and Belle Saison to test them out.

    Golden Promise 16#

    Chinook - 1oz @60
    Columbus 1.5oz, Citra 1oz, Amarillo 1oz all at flameout

    I did not like Belle Saison because it was boring, but I did like the hops and I think this would be great with Dupont. Simcoe would go nicely with any or all of these hops. BTW, GP makes an awesome saison.

    I also think that the APIPA would be good with Dupont http://www.beeradvocate.com/communi...ct-american-ipa-pellet-hop-version-ag.241975/
     
    #21 wspscott, Jun 12, 2015
  2. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    You would be exactly right. I'm a pretty good cook (as a hobbyist) and to me from a food perspective it sounded good. After doing al ot of reading last night I see their are basically 2 trains of thought for home brewing saisons. 1: use the yeast to get the flavors and character you want. 2) spice it to get the character you want. I've had a few saisons, and I do like them. But what I have had has been all over the place.
     
    #22 corbmoster, Jun 12, 2015
  3. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I dont think I would ever use simcoe in a belgian. Its pungent catty and piney, none of which I would use in an estery brew. Simcoe belongs in an ipa. I dont like simcoe at all, so I may be a little biased though.
     
    #23 SFACRKnight, Jun 12, 2015
    corbmoster likes this.
  4. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    I found a single grain recipe that fits the bill.

    Saison of the Season
    5 gallons/19 L, extract only; OG = 1.064 FG = 1.012; IBU = 20 SRM = 7.5–10 ABV = 6.8%

    Ingredients:
    9.75 lbs (4.4 kg) Pils liquid malt extract (such as Weyermann Bavarian Pilsner)
    0.50 fl. oz. (15 mL) of Weyermann SINAMAR® Color Malt Extract
    6.0 AAU Tettnanger hops (45 min) (1.3 oz./38 g of 4.5% alpha acid)
    1.0 oz. (28 g) Styrian Goldings hops (flavor/aroma)
    1 package of White Labs WLP565 (Belgian Saison I) or Wyeast 3724 (Belgian Saison) yeast
    1 cup dried malt extract (for priming)

    In the above it calls for Tettnanger hops. Surly they don't mean I should use 6 oz right? just use 1 oz right?
     
    #24 corbmoster, Jun 12, 2015
  5. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    In parantheses the recipe says 1.3 oz.
     
    #25 SFACRKnight, Jun 12, 2015
    corbmoster likes this.
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    No, that's 6 AAUs. AAUs are a unit not used too often, though they are implied in bittering calculations. Use (1.3 oz./38 g of 4.5% alpha acid)

    1.3 ounces x 4.5% AAs = ~6 AAU

    The idea is that if your AA% is higher (or lower), you decrease (or increase) the weight proportionally.
     
    #26 VikeMan, Jun 12, 2015
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  7. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    One last question (for now :slight_smile: ) is their compatibility between Munich LME, and pils extract? I found an all extract 'in house recipe' from my LHBS that calls for 9# of Munich LME 1 oz palisades, 2 oz of tettnang, some orange peel and cooriander. And honestly of all the recipes I've been looking at, I have not seen Munich used once. Except here. That's what makes me ask again.
     
    #27 corbmoster, Jun 12, 2015
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Munich and Pilsner malt are not the same. But Munich LME is sometimes made from 50% munich and 50% pilsner malts. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend a 100% Munich LME Saison...certainly not for a first saison that you want to be more or less traditional.

    ETA: My saisons usually have a little bit of Munich. It's not uncommon.
     
    #28 VikeMan, Jun 12, 2015
    corbmoster likes this.
  9. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Ok I'll be looking for pils. If not pils, than I'll use extra light. Would I be correct by thinking that the 0.5 oz of color extract only offers a change of color and is not really "necessary"?
     
    #29 corbmoster, Jun 12, 2015
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Basically.
     
    #30 VikeMan, Jun 12, 2015
  11. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I think you might be biased :slight_smile: Thankfully, I don't get catty at all with Simcoe, just delicious citrus and pine.
     
    #31 wspscott, Jun 12, 2015
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  12. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    does anyone have a recomended calculator for LME <-> DME I've seen a couple different formulas.
     
    #32 corbmoster, Jun 12, 2015
  13. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I noticed you didn't mention mangos. Hmmmm....
     
    #33 Brew_Betty, Jun 12, 2015
    wspscott and CurtFromHershey like this.
  14. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    Depends a little on the brand, but generally speaking

    To go from LME to DME, multiply by 36/44 (need less DME than LME by weight to get the same sugar content)
    For DME to LME, multiply by 44/36
     
    #34 CurtFromHershey, Jun 12, 2015
  15. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    Yeah, although I intentionally didn't reduce. DME is usually around 44 gravity points per pound, and LME 36. Figured it would be easier to remember.
     
    #35 CurtFromHershey, Jun 12, 2015
  16. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Well I'm pleased to see you finally accepted the Brewtoad sourced Saison recipe you wanted to brew is likely a train wreck and it only took two threads to realize. :slight_smile:
     
    #36 Brew_Betty, Jun 12, 2015
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  17. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    I never reduce fractions. It's usually more intuitive to not reduce.
     
    #37 corbmoster, Jun 13, 2015
    CurtFromHershey likes this.
  18. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Hey guys, I was going over the recipe one last time. It doesn't explicitly say which hops is the bittering. Since it does say the Styrian Golding is flavor / aroma, is it safe to assume the Tettnanger is the bittering? Or add it all during the boil?

    Saison of the Season
    5 gallons/19 L, extract only; OG = 1.064 FG = 1.012; IBU = 20 SRM = 7.5–10 ABV = 6.8%

    Ingredients:
    9.75 lbs (4.4 kg) Pils liquid malt extract (such as Weyermann Bavarian Pilsner)
    0.50 fl. oz. (15 mL) of Weyermann SINAMAR® Color Malt Extract
    6.0 AAU Tettnanger hops (45 min) (1.3 oz./38 g of 4.5% alpha acid)
    1.0 oz. (28 g) Styrian Goldings hops (flavor/aroma)
    1 package of White Labs WLP565 (Belgian Saison I) or Wyeast 3724 (Belgian Saison) yeast
    1 cup dried malt extract (for priming)

    Step by Step:
    Heat 3 gallons (11. 4 L) of brewing liquor to the boil. Shut off. Stir in the liquid malt extract and the SINAMAR®. Return to a boil and add the bittering hops immediately. Boil for another 45 minutes, shut off and adjust the gravity. From here on following the equivalent instructions for the all-grain brew.

    This is Horst Dornbusch’s final “Style Profile” column for BYO. Farewell!
     
    #38 corbmoster, Jun 16, 2015
  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Tettnanger is definitely the bittering hop, added at 45 minutes to go in the boil. What's not specified is when to add the Styrian Goldings (the flavor/aroma hop in this recipe). You could add it at, say, 10 minutes to go in the boil. Or you could reverse engineer the timing, because you know the total IBUs, and you know the specified amount and alpha acid % of the bittering hop. By computing the IBU contribution of the bittering hop, you could tell how many IBUs are left for the flavor/aroma hop. Knowing that, and using an average alpha acid % for Styrian Goldings, you could find the exact time to add it that the recipe writer intended. Or you could add it at 10 minutes.
     
    #39 VikeMan, Jun 17, 2015
  20. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    That's what I figured. I was going to add the styrian at 5 minutes left since it takes a while to cool down the wort in my sink. But I kinda goofed with the Tettnanger. I added it at 30 minutes into the boil. I was distracted. :slight_frown: Should I extend the boil by 5 or 10 min, or just roll with it? I was thinking since this is an extract batch I could do either or as long as I correct for gravity at the end right?
     
    #40 corbmoster, Jun 17, 2015
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