red IPA's and bjcp competitions

I was reading up on saisons in the bjcp. Traditionally the color is 5-14 SRM and ABV is 5-7%. In the notes it says, "darker(copper to dark brown/black) and stronger (6.5%-9.5%) beers should be entered in the belgian specialty class 16E". Here is an example of bjcp recommending a beer be reclassified based on color and slightly based on alcohol. However they do not recommend going into the general specialty class, but rather a belgian specialty class, based simply on color. So by looking at this precedent the rules seem to create a grey area. If everything else about the beer is textbook IPA I would enter it as an IPA. If there are other unusual characteristics then I would consider entering as a specialty beer.

 

Sounds like linear algebra. Find 47 ways to say the same thing, then "expand on that tomorrow"

 

I don't want to get too off-topic, but changes to specialty beers are one of the changes drew alluded to. for the moment though, I just consider 16E to be the Belgian version of 23. if it fits somewhere else, it goes there. a porter with fruit goes in 20A, with chocolate it goes in 21A, with both it goes in 23. A saison with cherries goes in 20A, with oak goes in 22C, with both goes in 16E. anyway that's how I've always interpreted 16E.

as far as color goes, I think most assume that along with the darker color comes darker flavors or aromas that would push it away from the flavor/aroma guidelines listed. But if for some reason a saison came through that was "too dark" (copper/etc) but tasted otherwise like a 16C, I'd expect a reasonably experienced judge to not ding it too much.


cheers--
--Michael

 

It's no accident that Belgians have their own specialty subcatagory...look at all these existing "Belgians" that don't fall neatly into other Belgian subcatagories.
Commercial Examples: Orval; De Dolle’s Arabier, Oerbier, Boskeun and Stille Nacht; La Chouffe, McChouffe, Chouffe Bok and N’ice Chouffe; Ellezelloise Hercule Stout and Quintine Amber; Unibroue Ephemere, Maudite, Don de Dieu, etc.; Minty; Zatte Bie; Caracole Amber, Saxo and Nostradamus; Silenrieu Sara and Joseph; Fantôme Black Ghost and Speciale Noël; Dupont Moinette, Moinette Brune, and Avec Les Bons Voeux de la Brasserie Dupont; St. Fullien Noël; Gouden Carolus Noël; Affligem Nöel; Guldenburg and Pere Noël; De Ranke XX Bitter and Guldenberg; Poperings Hommelbier; Bush (Scaldis); Moinette Brune; Grottenbier; La Trappe Quadrupel; Weyerbacher QUAD; Bière de Miel; Verboden Vrucht; New Belgium 1554 Black Ale; Cantillon Iris; Russian River Temptation; Lost Abbey Cuvee de Tomme and Devotion, Lindemans Kriek and Framboise, and many more

 

1554! hehehe
...I would guess that won't be in there in the next revision.

 

Why so? Haven't had it. edit, maybe I have, just can't remember it...so it does fit into one of the other Belgian sub-catagories?

 

1554, though a tasty beer (side note, it says black ale, then says on their website it's a lager) IMO has no characteristics that a judge would identify as "Belgian". It's closer to a schwarzbier, clean with restrained roast, though it isn't a great version of that either. Too much malt/body, low apparent bitterness. near-bock-strength schwarzbier I guess?
anyway, I've gotten away from homebrewing and I don't want someone's thread deleted so I'll drop it. Suffice to say some examples in the guidelines (Brian Boru as the top 9D comes to mind) seem very unlikely to make the next revision.

cheers--
--Michael

 

Yes, 6 or so years since last revision and it's long overdue in many, many respects...cheers, Barry

 

I would never in a bzillion years have associated 1554 with a Belgian. Not to say it's a bad beer, not at all, I rather like it. I pictured it as something of a schwarzbier, and IMO is one of NB's better regulars (along with Ranger and Abbey Belgian Style Ale).