Reducing Problems using Diasticus Yeasts, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Saisons

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by MrOH, Mar 15, 2018.

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  1. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    *Disclaimer: I am not any sorta scientist, professional brewer, or person that has the time or cares to read peer-reviewed articles on this sort of thing. These are just things I do in my brewhouse so that I can use the more aggresive saison strains and not ruin other beers.*

    There's been lots of talk recently about all the problems related to introducing Saccharomyces Cerevisiae var. Diastaticus into your brewhouse. We all know what yeasts we're talking about, and we all know the problems. (If not, feel free to post in this thread!) I'd like to open up a dialog about how to mitigate the "contamination" that is possible.

    I've used some of these yeasts a lot (wy3711, Belle Saison, the Mangrove Jack's strain(s) [they changed the numbers, and seem similar enough]), and had problems with gushers in the beers that used them, and over-attenuation, gushers, and unwanted phenols in beers using other yeasts until I really changed my cleaning/sanitation across the board. I'll list some stuff I do, and if anyone has anything they'd like to add, that's great!

    I know the easy thing to do is to say "Don't use them", but I feel, and I could be wrong, all saison yeasts are var. Diastaticus, some are just a little more sturdy than others. If you're looking to make a straight-up, yeast-forward saison, the DuPont strain is awesome, and I love it. For spiced, very hoppy, oddly malted, or whatever saisons, Blaugies and those close to it are better, IMHO.

    So here goes:
    1. I essentially treat it like Brett. Every piece of equipment for fermentation and bottling that it's come into contact with gets a hot OxyClean soak (PBW would probably be even better), followed by a hot water rinse, then a bleach solution soak, followed by a hot water rinse, then allowed to drip/air dry. Everything gets a StarSan soak before being used again.
    2. Bottle washing is as follows: as soon as a beer is poured from the bottle it gets three quick hot water rinses (pouring about a 1/2 ounce of hot tap into the bottle, putting my palm on the top and shaking, pour out the water, and repeat) before getting a good scrubbing with a bottle brush, then three more hot water rinses. Lax bottle washing is where I found I had the most problems with cross contamination.
    3. Whenever I run the dishwasher, the bottle brush goes in. It takes up such little space that there's no reason not to do it. Again, it helps prevent cross contamination.
    4. Pitch a healthy amount of yeast and give it some nutrient! Sure, a three month old smack-pack of 3711 will eventually eat through everything in a 1.080 wort, but it'll finish it up a lot more reliably and quickly if you make a proper starter and include a little bit of yeast nutrient. Not taking care of the yeast lead to most of my saisons being gushers after a few months.
    5. Give it time. Even though you'll probably reach expected terminal gravity in less than a week, but actual terminal gravity will more than likely be much lower. If I'm using these yeasts, they get at least a month in primary. I like to go two weeks with no gravity change before bottling. No sense in giving these yeasts the opportunity to have an extra 0.001 to play around with in a glass bottle.
    By adopting these processes, I haven't had any sort of gusher in a beer in over two years, despite using var. Diasticus strains almost exclusively for 5-6 months out of the year, and here and there over the cool weather months as well.

    Anyone else have any tips? Please share them! Want to rip this to shreds? Go ahead, so long as folks can learn from it.
     
    Push_the_limits and frozyn like this.
  2. Beerswimmer

    Beerswimmer Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2013 Texas

    A good HOT wash, thorough drying, and Starsan for everyting has kept me clean for yearsssss. I love 3711, use it all the time!
     
  3. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    PBW over oxiclean for sure. Oxiclean is caustic, star San is acidic. By using two cleaners that span the pH so broadly, you're really hitting those unwanted organisms with a strong one two punch.
     
    MrOH likes this.
  4. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

  5. Push_the_limits

    Push_the_limits Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2018 Antarctica

    I wanted to open up this thread again. I recently bottled a stout using some bottles that held a 3711 saison about a year ago. I rinsed the bottles with hot water and soaked them in Iodophor. I didn't use PBW. Should I be worried?
     
  6. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    It's a subjective question but in your shoes I would not be worried.
     
    Push_the_limits likes this.
  7. Push_the_limits

    Push_the_limits Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2018 Antarctica

    Thank you for that reassurance. I soaked them in a bucket full of Iodophor solution for over 10 minutes. Before that, they sat in storage for about a year. Hope it's ok.
     
  8. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    It really has more to do with — was there any biological build up (residue) on the bottles before you bottled? Iodophor and other sanitizers won't kill all the layers found in a smudge...there could be yeast/bacteria under the top layers that survive and then start to reproduce in over time. That's were a caustic cleaner like PBW or other alkaline cleaners are useful...cause they'll attack and remove any biological build up that scrub brushes/elbow grease may have missed.

    that said...rdwhahb
     
    MrOH likes this.
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