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Renegade threatened by Sixpoint

Discussion in 'Mountain' started by alexipa, Feb 21, 2013.

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  1. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (6,178) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    I am not necessarily a strong supporter of trademarks (or even some kind of patents), I just have a decent understanding of how they work and respect that - it is up to legislation to change it.
    SalukiAlum and alexipa like this.
  2. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    This depends on what your goal is. If it is just to stop the similar name from being used I'd rather go against a company I know doesn't have the money to defend themselves. But if you mean to tell me Sixpoint wouldn't mind getting in a legal tussle with Stone I'd strongly disagree.
  3. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (6,178) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    The likelihood of one as obvious as this one would likely not happen with a brewery like Stone that seems to do the due diligence on things like naming and trademarks...so that is kind of a moot point. If I found someone that I knew was infringing and refused to change after a cease & desist, I would much rather that infringer have deep pockets.

    I don't think Sixpoint has any goal of getting in a legal battle with Stone.
  4. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    Of course not, this was just hypothetical. I was just saying I'd rather the receiver of the C&D just comply, which they are more likely to do if they don't have the money for legal council whereas someone with deep pockets might take it the distance and may even win in the end.
  5. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (6,178) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    I agree - I think people that get the C&D and are violating, should just comply and not make a press release out of it. Actually, my mileage has varied on that...people that have less to lose are far more likely to just continue violating, people with deeper pockets are far more likely to settle (so as to not lose said deep pockets).
  6. crusian

    crusian Crusader (738) May 14, 2010 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    So... it isnt. it is pronounced Rye-tee-ious.
  7. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    I think the sticky part is contention of violation. Does Renegade (or whomever) believe that they are in violation? It seems they believe they are not, but perhaps fret that a judge will see differently. Either way, litigation is costly, win or lose. Avoiding that is prime motivation to acquiesce
  8. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (6,178) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    I think Sixpoint was actually pretty cool with agreeing to let them continue to use the name until they used up all their packaging. Litigation definitely costs everyone involved. But it seems like the dude from Renegade went out of his way to make it seem like Sixpoint were bad guys just because they did not want to do a collaboration beer with him (they did have Superstorm Sandy to deal with this past fall/winter). And the example of Russian River/Avery does differ since neither had previously been using the name.
  9. adkieffer

    adkieffer Disciple (326) Nov 23, 2010 Washington

    So what you are saying is my Renegade Ryeteous IPA T-shirt will soon be a collectors item?! Score
  10. Tarheel4985

    Tarheel4985 Initiate (87) Sep 14, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I don't think Renegade went out of their way to make Sixpoint seem like bad guys. They did that on their own by filing the C&D.

    Fact is they're 1800 miles apart and don't share distribution, and probably never will. What did Sixpoint hope to gain by pursuing legal action, other than hurting their own reputation? I hope keeping the exclusivity of that beer's name was worth the PR backlash it will cause, even if it may be a minor backlash.

    I personally enjoyed their beers when I visited NY a few weeks ago, especially 3Beans. But I can't say I'll be buying much of their beer again.
  11. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (6,178) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    I think that by reaching out and trying to work something out before involving the lawyers is pretty accommodating and only involving the lawyers when that did not work... In order to protect their trademark, they are obligated to file the C&D.

    Renegade could have made the change in a much more subtle fashion without the big press release and the statements like "in the case of honest infringement" which is implying that Sixpoint does not have the trademark legitimately. Then they compare this scenario to the Russian River and Avery one, which is a little different since neither had an existing beer which is not really a fair comparison since the introductions of these beer are separated by like 6 years.

    Actually, I'm not sure that they likely will never share distribution - Sixpoint is distributed as far west as Texas currently in addition to most of the eastern seaboard as well as some of the midwest.
  12. Boonedoggle

    Boonedoggle Initiate (0) Nov 30, 2011 Nebraska

    Personally I don’t have an issue with Sixpoint's stance on this. That doesn't mean I would necessarily go down the same path, but protecting their brand is their priority. Now the Strange debacle is something totally different that I absolutely do not agree with.

    If anything, this issue is giving Renegade free publicity.
    dbrauneis likes this.
  13. guyforget

    guyforget Initiate (0) Nov 12, 2009 Colorado

    sixpoint is in position to expand sooner than renegade. bidness be biznuss. renegade could have easily figured out that sixpoint held a similar trademark w/ a simple google search. prob wouldnt be an issue on a tap handle as it has been for years, but now that its in cans...

    dunno how many of you guys are in (small) business for yourselves but image and branding are huge in this emerging industry (as well as others). anyone not trademarking their names as soon as the packaging is approved is doing it wrong. i love beer and want to continue to see it progress but i also understand that there are people at work in these breweries that need to keep their intellectual property rights in tact to see them all through.

    what RR and Avery did is amazing and awesome but its not feasible at large in any industry. they are to be commended and admired and i think that both of their catalogs speak for themselves - two leaders in the barrel aged wild/sour beer categories, some of the most progressive in the nation. obviously their attitude towards the industry is also more progressive than most as well. not surprising at all, imo.
  14. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    This is an interesting topic, for it combines business with a "community endeavor". That is, even if you want to just focus on a local community (Denver, Fargo, Timbuktu) you must look at trademark issues. This seems to be not in the spirit of craft brewing; but it's a business, yes? Being a mediator, I think there are more opportunities (like Avery/RR) than most realize--they just aren't thought of yet. Collaboration is great, and I believe new solutions are out there to be discovered. It just takes a wee bit of effort....and over a pint or two
  15. imperialbeerdude

    imperialbeerdude Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2012 Colorado

    IDK is sixpoint the one with sixpoint written on the can? They have similar names so I don't know.
  16. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Disciple (349) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado

    This reminds me of the Strange Brewing thread where peoples' opinions on the complicated subject of trademark law and the perhaps equally complicated subject of who is the good guy/bad guy seemed informed primarily by which competing claimant they were closer to geographically or had purchased from in the past. Seems to me that the breweries themselves have moved on, on this one, and if Brian wants to make a point in his press release launching Redacted that's his prerogative--but the deal was made before anybody knew about the controversy, which IMO is better handled, by both adversaries, than the Strange dust-up.

    I will NEVER get over Gordon Biersch bullying Oskar Blues out of taking (hero) Gordon Knight's name off of Gordon, though. Fuck them.
  17. SalukiAlum

    SalukiAlum Disciple (332) Dec 19, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Depends on what country your from.
  18. ablackshear

    ablackshear Initiate (128) Sep 17, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

  19. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    True, but then he'd be asked, "Why is this called Redacted?" And the issue would rise up again like the Kraken in Clash of the Titans (the first one)
  20. dauss

    dauss Defender (664) Aug 9, 2003 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    I had heard a story, but I do not know if it is accurate. Supposedly, Oskar Blues did talk with Gordon Biersch and they came to a agreement that OB could use the name Gordon as long as the beer was not distributed in CA. OB violated the agreement and distributed the beer in CA, Gordon Biersch filed suit.

    edit: Nevermind, found it, http://beerpulse.com/2011/01/craftworks-responds-to-cease-and-desist-rumors/
  21. Danielbt

    Danielbt Initiate (0) May 4, 2012 Texas

    Too late. The bad guy has already been declared! No take-backs.
  22. ablackshear

    ablackshear Initiate (128) Sep 17, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    The problem is that an agreement was never needed in the first place, because suggesting that calling a beer Gordon is not OK because there's a brewery called Gordon Biersch is absurd.
    coreymcafee likes this.
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